Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Are premium bullets needed for elk?

I think Bills talking about the elk he’s taken, along with his dad, myself a few of us others that have been hunting together. I think he started hunting elk in the late 50’s or 60’s with his dad and their partners. There’s actually been a few more C&C kills but most of ours in our group has been with Accubonds, Sciroccos, Partitions and Bullets like that. I did use a 212 ELD this fall so that’s a plain C&C as well.

We debate this same exact thing every fall in camp. It’s all good fellas, Bills used 180 Partitions for around 75 elk I think and a smattering of Accubonds and probably some others he’s forgotten about.

So I don’t absolutely say it has to be a bonded super bullet to kill bulls at all, but most of the time I don’t see any downside to it either.

I see. Thanks for the clarification.
I still am a bit apprehensive about the premium/standard bullet ratio with that high of sample, but I do appreciate the response.

I think us, to include me have ran premiums since I started since that is what we were told. So honestly I’m sure other normal cup and cores would work fine if they’re run appropriately. I used the 212 ELD from an 06 and was mighty impressed. But I don’t think that bullet is even close to being stressed at 06 speeds. I think old Bill and his dad started with Partitions after some Sierras out of an 06 didn’t kill a couple elk real well so they switched and he’s ran the same load of 4350 and a 180 PT in a 300 Win longer than I’ve been alive so I don’t argue with how it works.

I learn stuff from you all all the time. These threads are pretty neat to me as some of you all have a lot of elk under your belt so I watch, read and listen.

Thanks again for the additional clarification.
I guess it would also depend on a person's definition of "premium" vs "standard C&C", which I mixed up when responding to elkmen's post.

When I think of "standard C&C" bullets I think of corelocks, powerpoints and some of the cheaper hornady's, etc. that a guy can buy at Walmart in a box of 20 loaded rounds. Bullets such as bergers, ELDMs, Scenars, accubonds, etc. are C&Cs, but are also "premiums", to me at least. Elkmen said he has seen 1 elk killed by C&C out of 150+....do you think he may have meant what I refer to as "standard C&C"? That would still be a stretch in my mind but if he wasn't guiding and they were all in his party than I guess I could buy it.

I have seen elk killed with all of the above and when used as designed and (with some) heavy bone is avoided, they're all perfectly adequate.

He might’ve. He used a plain Jane 162 Hornady BTSP from a 7 Rem on a small bull at 400’ish from what I remember. This was in Wyoming, that bullet just went to pieces on a front leg and required another finisher to kill it. It was a mangler. It did kill the elk, but I’d bet a buck a 160 AB would’ve hammered on thru and done just as good of a job killing the bull.

So yeah, long way around the tent pole I’d say that’s what he is thinking about plain old C&Cs. As far as I know that Hornady and the old Sierras him and his dad were using long before I was alive were the only plain janes.

I’ve got a bunch of pictures from about the last 25 or so elk we’ve taken with our recovered Bullets. I like to dig thru them after they’re taken care of cause I think it’s interesting to see what actually happened to the bullets. We see it all the time on here about what folks “think” happened but without digging around a bit it’s still guessing.

And agree, with the right shot and staying off bone it opens a lot of doors and I’d not stay home if I had to hunt with any (Fed, CorLokts, PPs) you mentioned but like you said, you can’t expect miracles from them either nor probably from the great Bullets, but it is a decent Bet the better Bullets will at least break a near side joint and push into the chest.

Boy, you guys sure should have this figured out by now. These damn modern elk just must me tougher. I make a point to not use premium bullets and every year for the last 30 years a couple elk seem to die around here.

Jim Bridger, Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, they all tried to kill elk but their black powder balls simply bounced off! :-)

Bullet designs have been improved in recent decades and centuries. Doesn't mean the old stuff, like musket balls or various C&Cs, won't work on large game. But the newer stuff is better in terms of reliability and penetration. All kinds of projectiles will kill large game, dating back to 3,000,000 years ago. Buying modern bullets, or not, on many elk hunts is a cost factor that is a fraction of a thousandth of the cost of the hunt.

^^^^^^^^This ^^^^^^^^


In all of this diatribe,I don’t recall anyone suggesting that premium bullets were required to kill an elk...... the premium bullet simply an improved mousetrap! Most of us enjoy modern vehicles, homes with central heat and air conditioning, probably prepare most meals on a modern stove. Very few of us would prefer to leave these modern conveniences behind and live without them. Many of us old bastards likely embrace modern medicines that are keeping us on the grassy side of dirt! A premium bullet is nothing more than a better way to accomplish a task! memtb

True. And a cheap Aeroflot plane likely will get you there without dying, but a Boeing 777 will do the same with more confidence and greater reliability. Costs just a bit more.

DLS, what is your pick for the regular Bullets you use?

I’m not about to regale this group with counts if dead elk, etc. However, several of my serious hunting buddies of 15+ years used factory Hornady Interlocks and various Ballistic Tips and Core Lokts. I even used Speer Nitrex Grand Slams back in the day. Every single one of them are now shooting Barnes TTSX or LRX for mule deer and elk. The only bullets I’ve used in the past 30 years are TBBC and Barnes TSX and TTSX. Shoot the cheapos if you must. Several guys I know still use Norma Oryx and Nosler accubonds with success. If you feel like an atlatl is effective enough, go for it. Or maybe some olde Silvertips......
Happy Trails

The ole timers usually bought what was on the shelf and went hunting.

I'm talking real ole timers:

Some random thoughts regarding this bullet debate.......

I live close to the elk I hunt. So I can spend days scouting, and I spend many more days practicing my marksmanship on the various varmints that Idaho offers, year round. Being retired doesn't hurt!!!

I've invested alot of money in gear and lots of hours staying in shape for the hunting season. I get to my hunting area a few days before the season starts, so I have a very good chance of killing my target bull, on opening day. I can't remember the last year I failed to kill an elk.

I hunt solo.

Elk are the reason I moved to Idaho, years ago.

I utilize the elk I kill for my yearly supply of meat.....along with a few deer.

The only contact you have with the elk, before he is dead, is the bullet. I use larger calibers than most that have posted, and heavy bullets for that caliber....I try for exit holes, no matter the angle. Recoil does not bother me.....I shoot year round...."alot" by most people's standards.

With everything invested in the hunt, time/effort and money, you think I'm using anything other than a premium bullet (even if its not "needed")?

Andy3

I think this discussion gets into a government like deal.

Just throw money at the problem......

Problem is .....most " failures" aka problems regarding elk harvest........

Were not caused by bullet selection....

But certainly not selecting a bullet you are confident in......seems odd.

I've seen quite a few hunters who were confidant in their elk bullet--until they hit bone..........

Hitting an elk in the thick part of the shoulder bone or upper leg bone significantly narrows the bullet choices.

Very hard to argue against CH’s logic.

I recently shot a Red Stag that weighed around 450lbs.I shot it with a 300 Win Mag and a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip about a 100yards away.My load had a mv at 3100fps.I hit the onside shoulder and left a silver dollar size exit behind the offside shoulder.That bullet held up really well.I think Nosler has come a long way in improving the ballistic tips over the years.They beefed up the jackets and they must use a hard lead for the core.I was impressed by how little the meat was bloodshot around the wound channel.What I've noticed over the years is,if you have a cup and core bullet that has a soft lead core,it will shed a lot of weight and often produces a lot of very bloodshot meat.I don't know when Mule deer did this test but it is an interesting read.Because bullet makers tend to play around with bullets from time to time,I'm sure the results can vary as well. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/rifle-bullet-hardness/

A friend of mine that has killed a LOT of big game animals in several countries told me his favorite elk load was a 165 gr Nosler ballistic tip out of any 30 caliber magnum. In his words, a NBT is a forgiving bullet. It can make a marginal shot a good shot. In the heat of the moment, things can and do go wrong and bullets don't end up where they were supposed to occasionally.

I shoot NBTs when I can because they are accurate. It doesn't take much to stop a heart, but you have to hit it.

I wonder what they used to kill elk before the "premium" bullets came around? Maybe elk have gotten tougher over the years....

"The cost of the bullet is so inconsequential when compared to the rest of the hunt" - a mantra promulgated by the sellers, just like "You get what you pay for".