Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Minimum caliber to hunt elk??...

Jordan, are you saying that's not true??? I read that in a magazine once, it must be true!

Sheesh. Next thing, you'll be saying there ain't no Santa Claus....

Hold into the ballistics tables!!

Are you ever gonna answer the question?

Sorry, dumb question.

Sixshooter’, you are in way over your head here arguing ballistics with Jordan, but please continue, it’s entertaining.

HBD Jordan.

By the way, .223 is legal in NM for elk.

You're missing the point here Smokepole. You asked a question emphasized above. I answered it. Then you came out and called me names, said you already knew the answer, and told me that I was answering the wrong question among the multiple ones you asked.

I never suggested you didn't ask other questions. I never suggested that I was attempting to answer them. I have no obligation to answer them. And you gave no indication that you already knew the answer to what you asked above until after I answered it. I have no reason to doubt now that you knew the answer, but I haven't insulted you or even disagreed with you. I honestly can't figure out why you are angry with me.

I called you names???

No, I save that for numbnuts. And no, I'm not angry with you, sorry if I came off that way. I did say bullshit but that doesn't mean I'm angry with you. And my question really was, "what is it based on." I shouldn't have even mentioned the "who" but numbnuts needed me to draw a picture for him so I threw that in there.

So, what's it based on, that's the question I want numbnuts to answer. Because it'll be entertaining as hell.

I was confused by the fact that you used the term numbnuts in between two comments to me. I thought that was directed at me. No biggie.

Ok, now that you two have exchanged address for Christmas cards, can we get back on track?

Is 1,500 pounds for residents? Would a NR guided hunter want 2,200?

Is 1,000 acceptable for women and children?

2150 is the generally accepted rate for a NR Guided Hunter on 6x6 elk and smaller. Don’t cross the line SLM, it could get messy.

Okay, please don’t shoot the messenger! What follows is my, often-paraphrased and/or summarized, version of Boddington’s explanation in the subject chapter. Please do not accuse me of promoting or agreeing with any of them, as I am just summarizing them.

Elk are really tough.

Everything from bows, muzzleloaders, handguns, and powerful rifles can and have cleanly taken elk.

Handgun and bow hunters intentionally are limiting their range of effective fire.

There are only a few presentations that work for arrows.

.24 and .25 caliber rifles have reduced effective ranges versus larger bores because, other than a head or neck shot, the only other one that reliably will work, due to the reduced energy produced by these rifles, is a double-lung shot that often doesn’t present itself.

If you're going to accept that limitation, might as well avail yourself of the better-timed archery and ML seasons.

“Does this mean that these cartridges should not be carried into the elk woods? Not necessarily. Truly expert marksmen … can indeed make them work miracles. This is especially true if they live in elk country” because they “can wait for the proper opportunity to present itself ...”

“[I]f the object is to get a nice elk—and especially if the hunter lives far from elk country and has a limited amount of time to hunt—then it seems to me that the sensible approach is to have the most adequate tool available…”

He once saw a big bull take eight “good hits” from an 8mm RM before going down. A .375 H&H likely would have done no better, but his memory of the incident informs his rifle choices.

“How much energy is actually needed is impossible to define, and there is probably no exact figure since so much depends on shot placement bullet construction, and even the mental state of the elk.”

Boddington prefers a 2,000 ft-lb minimum at impact for elk, “but, if I had to choose, I would take bullet weight over energy every day.”

A 175gr 7mm RM is his personal minimum for elk.

Then, he starts to go through the merits of a bunch of specific cartridges.

Then, he said that those who shoot the .340 Wby are the truest and most-honorable sons of God.

Okay, I made up that last part, but it’s true.

That chapter was written in 2000. In his 2005 writings on the subject, he makes some of the same points, but omits any mention of a KE lower limit.

I think he also comes around to say the 270 worked really darned well for him on one of his longest shots later on and admits maybe he was a little bit high on what he suggested previously.

I have no doubt that he did, as I haven't read much of his other writings other than those two sources, the latter being "The Perfect Shot ..."

But, in those two, he basically said that the .270 can work, but he's not a big fan of them for elk.

Again, I'm not promoting that view. It's just what he said in two books up until 2005. I have no doubt that he changed his mind.

I'm still leaning toward taking the 6.5-300 this October. If I do, I would be violating his energy rule past 500 yards, but not Whelen's out to beyond 700 yards.

I thought it was 2,152.39 ft-lbs. Are you rounding? That could leave you short a couple of ft-lbs.

You forgot handgun hunters they get it done because they “get in close but know their handgun isn’t very effective” somehow knowing it’s not very effective makes it bring down animals more betterer even if not meeting the invented minimums.

Thank you, sir

I have only taken 9 elk in my lifetime, so not an expert by any means. 7 of those were with a 270 and 150gr partition, the other two were with a 30-06 and 180 Hornady spire point. all 9 were once shot kills with the longest being around 300 yards and the shortest 75 yards. as far as being dead, I could not tell the difference between the two calibers. I am always somewhat amused by forums when this question is asked for two reasons. One is why we all seemed interested in the smallest caliber and the other being the insinuation Elk are made of steel and concrete. more important to my limited experience are perhaps angles of the shot and distance. my elk hunting days might be over now, but if I did go, I would not hesitate to take anything from 243 up with the right bullet and the understanding I have to pick my shots.

This is getting confusing, is that a 270” type 6X6 or 380”?

A NR guided hunter, hunting a 400” type bulI would need a minimum of 2,322 I’m thinking?

I know you said your only the messenger, but I quit paying attention to anything he says about elk a long time ago.

In your quotes, he talks about resident hunters like a few knuckleheads here do. When I draw, I have 5 days with a ML or rifle just like most guided hunters. The resident, NR argument is about as idiotic as the energy argument.

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I realize you think you are important here, but I owe you nothing, you opened this up

and NO I am not going to answer your inane question and yes I know the answer.. Ask me a pertinent question about ballistics and I have answered as best as I could

Right now I am seriously LMAO at you twisting around yourself trying to look smart, it is rather entertaining

It might make sense in some applications. My buddy and I hunted the nine-day season-2 in Colorado a few years ago and could only hunt 5 days because of travel time and work obligations. If we lived there, we could have hunted nine days, and we could have spent a lot more time beforehand scouting the area.

I own 130 acres of mountain property in central Colorado. I’m putting in for a class-B private-land-only cow tag there that goes from Sept. 1 to Jan. 31. If I get it, I will be able to hunt it a fair amount, but not like if I lived there.

I’m moving out there in about 18 months. When I live there, I can hunt it every day for some number of hours and many days all day, for five full months--all within 2/3 of a mile of my house. It can make a difference.

I don’t agree with some of what Boddington says, but I actually try to learn from all experienced hunters’ comments. I am not into the “everyone else is so stupid because they aren’t real hunters like the few of us and they hilariously and stupidly talk about ___" philosophy too much.

If someone ponders the kinetic energy of their bullet, it doesn’t mean that they are a dumbass and aren’t picking an adequate loading, doing physical training, scouting, learning, shooting, preparing, etc. …

Your mean the Physicist that said this
"I agree. One of the many reasons that KE is a poor metric for "killing power" is that some of that energy is converted into heat energy, sound energy, etc, and the exact amounts are non-deterministic and nearly impossible to predict."

That alone disqualifies him from the discussion

.223 is legal in Idaho too and if I wanted to kill an elk and not hunt one I can sit on my porch sipping coffee and shoot one dead in the head most mornings from Sept through Jan...Woohoo hunting !!!