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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 69
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 69 |
I'm putting this on the Campfire instead of the Reloading section due the greater amount of exposure. I want to load up some mild 38 special loads using 158 lead SWC's that I have a great number of. I've run out of Unique but due have a pound of Varget and Lil'gun. Does anyone have any load data for these two powers that could be safely used for a mild 38 special load. Thanks
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 63
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 63 |
Yes, trade those two powders for some more Unique or WW 231.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,027 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 3,027 Likes: 2 |
Yes, trade those two powders for some more Unique or WW 231. Good idea. Find some local member and swap that Varget for some Unique. Ought to be an easy trade.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,738 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,738 Likes: 3 |
Yes, trade those two powders for some more Unique or WW 231. Yep. If I was up at my place outside Sandpoint I could help...
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 631
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 631 |
NRA Life Member
"You might as well be wrong, as be right and not know it"
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 |
Lil'gun is by far your better option. Keep in mind, Quickload is not the best with straight walled cartridge, and generally, loads will be HOTTER than estimated, so start lower than normal and work up. With that said, this should get you in the ball park, just be careful:
Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)
Bullet : .358, 158, LEE TL358-158-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 16.521 grain H2O = 1.073 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.550 inch = 39.37 mm
Barrel Length : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon Lil'Gun
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 4.545% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-45.4 38 6.00 478 80 3090 1132 27.3 1.737
-40.9 41 6.50 509 91 3468 1309 29.0 1.644
-36.4 44 7.00 542 103 3892 1506 30.9 1.558
-31.8 47 7.50 575 116 4368 1725 32.9 1.477
-27.3 51 8.00 610 131 4899 1966 35.0 1.402
-22.7 54 8.50 647 147 5491 2232 37.4 1.331
-18.2 57 9.00 685 164 6151 2525 39.9 1.264
-13.6 60 9.50 724 184 6885 2847 42.5 1.201
-09.1 63 10.00 765 205 7701 3201 45.3 1.141
-04.5 66 10.50 807 228 8609 3582 48.3 1.085
+00.0 69 11.00 850 254 9617 3986 51.3 1.031
+04.5 73 11.50 896 282 10740 4411 54.4 0.980
+09.1 76 12.00 944 312 11989 4856 57.5 0.930
+13.6 79 12.50 993 346 13381 5316 60.6 0.880
+18.2 82 13.00 1044 382 14933 5789 63.7 0.832 ! Near Maximum !
+22.7 85 13.50 1096 422 16665 6272 66.8 0.787 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 69 11.00 878 271 10192 4268 54.9 1.004
As for Varget, I'm pretty adventurous, so I'd consider playing with it to see what happened.
Cartridge : .38 Special (SAAMI)
Bullet : .358, 158, LEE TL358-158-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 16.521 grain H2O = 1.073 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.550 inch = 39.37 mm
Barrel Length : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET *T
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 3.333% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-33.3 68 10.00 515 93 4065 1182 17.9 1.517
-30.0 71 10.50 537 101 4449 1291 18.6 1.459
-26.7 75 11.00 560 110 4870 1407 19.3 1.403
-23.3 78 11.50 584 120 5332 1529 20.1 1.349
-20.0 81 12.00 609 130 5840 1658 20.9 1.297
-16.7 85 12.50 634 141 6400 1795 21.8 1.247
-13.3 88 13.00 660 153 7018 1939 22.7 1.199
-10.0 92 13.50 687 166 7698 2091 23.6 1.152
-06.7 95 14.00 715 179 8451 2251 24.5 1.107
-03.3 98 14.50 743 194 9284 2420 25.5 1.063
+00.0 102 15.00 773 210 10207 2597 26.5 1.020
+03.3 105 15.50 803 226 11235 2784 27.6 0.979
+06.7 109 16.00 835 245 12382 2980 28.7 0.937
+10.0 112 16.50 868 264 13665 3186 29.9 0.893
+13.3 115 17.00 902 285 15107 3402 31.1 0.852 ! Near Maximum !
+16.7 119 17.50 937 308 16731 3628 32.4 0.811 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 3% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 3% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 102 15.00 794 221 10736 2749 28.1 0.997
Data for burning rate decreased by 3% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 102 15.00 752 198 9694 2450 25.1 1.045
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/12/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,084
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,084 |
Varget in a 38 Special? I wouldn’t think so!
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 |
Varget in a 38 Special? I wouldn’t think so! One way to find out.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,084
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,084 |
Varget in a 38 Special? I wouldn’t think so! One way to find out. Be sure and have someone video it from a safe distance.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 |
Varget in a 38 Special? I wouldn’t think so! One way to find out. Be sure and have someone video it from a safe distance. Why? What's the real risk? Take a moment and think it through.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/12/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,290 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,290 Likes: 3 |
Be sure and have someone video it from a safe distance.
Bah - varget is way too slow in a 38.
Yours in Liberty,
BL
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,162 Likes: 35
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,162 Likes: 35 |
Varget in a 38 Special? I wouldn’t think so! One way to find out. “See ya on the other side” Like gopher gunner says 
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
Lil'gun yes, Varget?? What happens when you double load a lite load of Unique or Bullseye in a 38 special? It will hold three times as much as a safe load. we all have seen the pictures, top strap gone and half the cylinder missing.
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,400
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,400 |
Look at the % powder burnt numbers. I wonder if it will be a fire hazard near dry grass?
Sacred cows make good burgers when you know what temperature to cook them at.-Rev. Billy
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,411
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,411 |
You can walk in the stores here and buy pistol powders. Might not have exactly what you want but you find something that will work better than what you have.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,998 |
Lil'gun yes, Varget?? What happens when you double load a lite load of Unique or Bullseye in a 38 special? It will hold three times as much as a safe load. we all have seen the pictures, top strap gone and half the cylinder missing. Varget's exactly the opposite of Bullseye in this application.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,384 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,384 Likes: 3 |
I contacted Hodgdon ~15 years ago and asked why they do not list 158 gr LIL GUN loads for 38 sp or 357 mag, when they work so well for me.
The response was that it melted the base of the Lead bullet.
3) Hodgdon max load for LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP
357 mag, 1.58" OAL, 15 gr.
a) Colt Police Positive 38 Special, 158 gr. LSWC
26 gr. [case full], CCI450 small rifle mag primers, fired hundreds,
kicks like a 44 mag
It takes triple compression to fit that much powder in there. It gets higher velocity with less powder.
More powder is more noise, muzzle flash, and recoil, but less velocity.
) Colt Police Positive 38 Special 4" barrel:
1) cheap commercial reloads [from ShotgunNews] mixed brand brass 158 gr. JHP, 830 fps
2) 18 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1173 fps
3) 23.5 gr. LIL'GUN 158 gr. XTP 1.59", WSPM, 1155 fps
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 69
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 69 |
I live in the Cour D' Alene area just across the state line from Spokane, Wa. I haven't seen any powder on the shelves in probably 4 months of any kind. Got a pretty good supply of rifle powder but my pistol powders getting real low. Thanks for you inputs. I'll give the LIL'Gun a try.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,468 |
Yes, Varget is much slower than Bullseye or Unique. Still Varget would not be a good choice in a 38 Special to myself at least.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,210 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,210 Likes: 3 |
I can probably set you up with a better powder in trade for varget. I'm in spokane every day.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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