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Joined: Aug 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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any 44 or larger with 200 gr HPs will do the trick ..
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,983
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,983 |
Ross, A lot of good advise above. The one thing I'd add is that with todays firearm technology choosing a good load is probably more important than caliber in handgun. Additionally I'm a proponent of high capacity because as mentioned above, handguns are not magic wands, you are not in a movie, and things can go sideways fast. Of course no matter how good you shoot it, how many rounds it holds or how good the ammo is, you gun of choice must adhere to rule #1 and go bang every time you pull the trigger.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/25/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,162 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,162 Likes: 2 |
In terms of one shot stops, consider this.
Lots of people are dropped with one shot. Or two.
What 99.9% of the inexperienced public don't realize is that just because you shoot someone, it does not mean that you are going to get an instantaneous reaction. It will likely take a bit. By the time you see the physiological reaction from the first shot, you may have put 5, 6 or 8 more into the guy, or guys. They may also have not stopped doing what they were doing that caused you to shoot them in the first place. You may take some hits in the mean time. Or get stabbed. Or hit by a hammer.
It takes a bit to see a reaction. Quite often you have to hammer people, unless you get lucky and get an CNS hit that flips a switch.
That is the reality.
This nonsense that you are going to calmly take your J Frame and place one round perfectly into the shirt button of a bad guy, , then calmly do the same to the next is just that. Nonsense.
It can be more like the all out knock down drag out event that happens when a football gets loose on the snap. Another excellent spot-on post - and by someone that we ALL should be paying attention to.. Kudos, MS...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,009
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wade
"Let's Roll!" - Todd Beamer 9/11/01.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,070
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,070 |
Pistol grip 18" 410 shotgun. Less chance of a bullet going through the wall somewhere you don't want it to go and when you make contact it makes a really nasty hole. And with a 410 the typical female can use it. Trained properly a 12 gauge would be better but a 410 will do the job. As with everything that I write this is my own opinion only, unless you agree with me.
Last edited by BluMtn; 03/25/21.
Writing from the gateway to the great BluMtns in southeastern Washington.
Just remember, "You are the trailer park and I am the tornado". Beth Dutton, Yellowstone.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
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For home defense, I rely mostly on my dog. ( bulldog) Have a 18 " 12 gauge pump Ithaca also for back -up.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Thanks for the info. I did speak to BPS counter this morning and they indicated a large selection of Ruger, Kimber and Glocks in stock. I’ll be checking it out tomorrow. Also have local gun shop with some fine long guns and assorted pistols and revolvers. I inquired about a CZ 75 B. They’re expecting a shipment in a week said importing from COVID19 ridden Europe was a cause of lack of production and import as well as Biden Admin making it more difficult to import in a timely manner. The shop did have a few CZ Models in stock. Thanks again for the input. The CZ is a great weapon, but no better than many available RIGHT NOW. A bird in the hand is worth two in the brush, or something like that. I would get while the gettin's good and not wait on something that will "probably" be available next week. Remember to get some extra mags if they're available.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,662
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,662 |
For home defense, I rely mostly on my dog. ( bulldog) Have a 18 " 12 gauge pump Ithaca also for back -up. Good call, Dogs fill several roles in home defense. They're a deterrent for people who know you have one. They're a deterrent when a potential invader hears the bark; especially a big dog bark. If they persist, the dog can be a delay factor if the dog is willing to engage. In short, depending on the dog...The dog can handle the entire situation, or buy you enough time to give him/her some backup.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,230
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,230 |
EE A bird in the hand can be messy!
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Jun 2018
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Campfire Regular
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Yes, NOW is good. And even better on the full cap mags. I paid about a hundo more for my CZ than I should have, but was willing when I saw it pop into stock, as it was exactly what I wanted anyway. You just don’t know if or how long you’re going to be able to get those mags. If you want or would like a high cap nine, I’d do it quickly. Then there’s the whole possibility of imported firearms facing a shut-down, so if it’s a brand you like or prefer from over-seas, might be best to get while the gettin’s possible. Why I did.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,445
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Doesn't matter.
Your neighbors will appreciate YOU not missing the perp bullet sponge.
Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Pronoun: Yes, SIR !
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
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Posing somewhat of a hypothetical and excuse the topic if it’s been discussed thoroughly before. Wanted opinions on a home defense situation regarding one shot stopping/disabling perp in home from 10 yards or so. Realize the situation would call for possibly multiple shots however trying to get a better understanding of which provides highest probability of 1 shot rendering the perp and the threat neutralized. Consider both being good hits square in the middle of the upper chest.
Firearms would be 1911 platform for both 45ACP and 9mm Para. Both would be a 4.2” commander based model with both shooting JHP. 45ACP with 230 grain JHP, 9mm being 125-130 grain JHP.
No body armor encounter just a perp in street cloths. Realizing this is subjective would like to hear opinions on one shot stopping power regarding both.
Your question suggests that you would be better served by purchasing a quality striker fired gun that will cost about 1/2 of a decent Commander. Take the money you saved and invest it in quality training and ammo. A dependable weapon in the hands of a trained and practiced shooter will serve if always carried. mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Caliber is icing on the cake.
Most people don't have the cake, and should worry/train more to get it than worry about the icing.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,808
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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One thing I would strongly suggest is getting involved with IDPA, USPSA or similar action-shooting discipline. You don't need a lot of money or equipment to get started and you don't have to burn the stages like a pro. Shooting against the timer, engaging targets in tactical priority, not breaking any rules, people watching you.... all this gives you practice at handling your gun and shooting under a certain amount of stress, as well as shooting, moving and thinking all combined. Even the bottom tier of frequent tactical shooting competitors will be ahead, in a bad situation, of the guy who shoots tin cans and bullseyes once in a while and spends the rest of his time arguing stopping power, bullet performance, magazine capacity, operating systems, and on and on and on
Mathew 22: 37-39
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
One thing I would strongly suggest is getting involved with IDPA, USPSA or similar action-shooting discipline. You don't need a lot of money or equipment to get started and you don't have to burn the stages like a pro. Shooting against the timer, engaging targets in tactical priority, not breaking any rules, people watching you.... all this gives you practice at handling your gun and shooting under a certain amount of stress, as well as shooting, moving and thinking all combined. Even the bottom tier of frequent tactical shooting competitors will be ahead, in a bad situation, of the guy who shoots tin cans and bullseyes once in a while and spends the rest of his time arguing stopping power, bullet performance, magazine capacity, operating systems, and on and on and on My neighbor would go on and on about gun selection, caliber selection, stopping power, etc... The thing he didn't do was train. Well, we finally got him to go to the local USPSA match with us. He finally realized what I meant by needing the cake before you worry about the icing. Now, well, he still sucks relative to the "good" shooters, but he can actually move and engage targets, draw without dropping the gun, and reload in less than 5 seconds.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,821
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,821 |
9mm vs 45 acp ? Why not have both, in multiple? Smaller versions for easier hide when clothing types change.
Some days maybe your back is bad and you just need lighter and or smaller.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,731
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,731 |
To @UPHiker’s point,
When the police take my $500 Glock for evidence, I’ll be rearmed with a similar $500 Glock in minutes.
I have a guy who is a retired LEO who had some former “clients” break into his house and he shot them with his $3,200 Ed brown 1911.
They still have his gun in the evidence locker. damn the cost, I am going with efficiency, efficacy, and results. I can buy another $3K pistol. Or whatever.
Sam......
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,580 |
To @UPHiker’s point,
When the police take my $500 Glock for evidence, I’ll be rearmed with a similar $500 Glock in minutes.
I have a guy who is a retired LEO who had some former “clients” break into his house and he shot them with his $3,200 Ed brown 1911.
They still have his gun in the evidence locker. damn the cost, I am going with efficiency, efficacy, and results. I can buy another $3K pistol. Or whatever. Yeah, while it'll suck to lose the can on my AR pistol, if someone breaks in, I'm grabbing the best tool, not the one I don't mind losing. It'll still be less than the lawyer costs.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,244 Likes: 10
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,244 Likes: 10 |
+P ammo would likely help for one shot stops. A 12ga with #4 buckshot will give better one shot stops on the average. Either way, be prepared to shoot more than once. Not all that sure +P ammo would make a difference. Depends a lot on where you hit the intruder. I’d take shot placement over +P ammo, given the choice. Although waking suddenly at 3:00 AM, my shot placement probably won’t be as good as when I’m at the Range. I’ve got 3 guns within arm’s reach when I’m in bed. A Glock 32 in .357 Sig, a 1911 in 45 acp. And a Rem 870 12 ga pump loaded with 8 rounds of # 4 buckshot. The 12 ga will always be the first one I grab if I have time.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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