Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Shot The Behemoth: Colt's 3rd Dragoon .44, by Uberti

Walker.

Fun to shoot but reloading takes a while.

+1

You have an awesome collection of firearms

Gatofeo
Member
Joined:Feb 17, 2004
Messages:431
Location:Remote Utah desert
The late gun writer Elmer Keith (1898 - 1983) wore his first revolver at the age of 14, in 1912. It was a Colt 1851 Navy in .36 caliber.
He grew up in Helena, Montana. At that time, the area had many veterans of the Civil War, Yanks and Rebs. These men taught him to shoot and how to load his cap and ball revolver.
In his classic 1955 book, "Sixguns," Keith includes a chapter about shooting the old cap and ball sixguns. The book is still printed today, I believe. Though some of it is dated, it's still good reading.
Keith obviously loved the old cap and balls, though they were more troublesome to shoot than modern, cartridge guns with smokeless powder.
What he reports about the deadliness of the lead ball will, I hope, dispel the myth that these revolvers were not nearly as deadly as the cartridge revolvers that replaced them.
Listen to what Keith has to say:

"For its size and weight nothing is so deadly as the round ball of pure lead when driven at fairly good velocity," Keith wrote. "Maximum loads give these slugs fairly high velocity from a 7-1/2 inch barrel gun."

Keith knew two Civil War cavalrymen who had seen an enormous amount of battle in the Civil War. Major R. E. Stratton fought in the Confederacy's 1st Texas Regiment. Samuel H. Fletcher fought in the Union's 2nd Illinois Cavalry.
"Both Maj. Stratton and Sam Fletcher told me the .36 Navy with full loads was a far better man killer than any .38 Special they had ever seen used in gun fights," Keith wrote.
"Maj. Stratton said that for a man stopper he preferred the round ball with chamber full of FFG to the pointed conical bullet," Keith wrote. "Sam Fletcher also told me he preferred a pure lead round ball in his Navy Colts with chamber full of black powder, to the issued conical ball load.
"Fletcher claimed the round ball dropped enemy cavalrymen much better and took all the fight out of them, whereas the pointed bullet at times would only wound and leave them fighting.
"Fletcher stated, however, that when foraging and shooting cattle for meat, the pointed bullet was the best for body shots that had to be taken where penetration was needed. But that on all frontal shots on beef, the old round ball was plenty good and would reach the brain --- even on bulls.
"Major Stratton claimed that while the big Dragoon was slower for quick-draw work, once you had it in your hand it was the best cavalry pistol of all," Keith wrote. "It would drop a horse as easily as a man with its .45-caliber round or conical ball and 50 grains of FFG black powder.

"Many a buffalo was killed from horseback with the heavy Colt Dragoons using the round ball and 50 grains of FFG black powder. The big guns would drive the ball well through the lungs of a running buffalo at a few feet range. I had one old Dragoon at one time that had killed a number of the big California grizzlies. The owner used to bait them and sit up in a tree above the bait on moonlight nights and shoot down into the back of their heads."

"A lot of fun and good shooting can be had from muzzle loading sixguns. True, they are dirty and throw a big cloud of smoke, but that same smoke cloud or screen was often an advantage to the old gunfighter as he could see through his own gun smoke much better than an adversary some distance away could, and for this reason many of the old-timers preferred black powder for a sixgun."

"In a low ceilinged room, a few shots from a black powder sixgun lays down such a smoke screen that you can only see when you are down next to the floor. At night, the blast of the first shot would put out all the kerosene lamps from concussion."

"Percussion pistols in good working condition arenot just century old relics; they are very deadly weapons. Great grand dad was far from being disarmed or helpless with a cap and ball pistol, fully loaded and capped, swinging from his hip."

I picked up a Colt "C" model Dragoon recently. The serial numbers on this one run concurrently with the original production numbers. Currently it's unfired but that my change. It didn't come with the box and it has some minor handling marks so I guess it's not really a collector item, but for $500 "out the door" I couldn't resist. I was at Scheel's and they had #11 percussion caps in stock so I picked up a half dozen tins on a whim. I'm thinking if you see 'em you best grab them,

PS The Colt re-issue Dragoons (at least prior to the Signature Series) were known to be over bore, i.e., requiring bullets larger than the standard .454.

It's my understanding that the "Signature" series were not produced by Colt, merely licensed by Colt. If memory serves me "Iver Johnson" produced them. You perked my curiosity about the bore size, so I measured a cylinder and it measured .4475 using a cheap caliper. As long as when pressing the ball into the cylinder if a ring of peeled back lead occurs then you are good to go. Some folks smear Vaseline over the loaded ball to prevent cross firing adjacent cylinders. I don't see a problem as long as the lead ring forms when compressing the ball in the chamber. A felt wad is sometimes used between the ball and powder charge, though not necessary to me.

Is Uberti the way to go? I’ve always wanted an 1851 Navy.

If money is no object than the Colt Signature Series is the way to go for both a shooter and something that will hold its value. Uberti's are probably as good and a good Armi is as good as an Uberti, same with Pietta. For brand new guns, I think the only choice is Uberti or Pietta.

For strictly shooting where absolute realism is not required, those stainless guns like the one pictured previously here, would be great. They don't look too unrealistic either since most of the old guns quickly lost their finish if used in the field very much. You could also polish the stainless so it looked like a nickeled or even silver plated gun.

Is Uberti the way to go? I’ve always wanted an 1851 Navy.

You can see my home-made ball grease covering the loaded chambers on this 1851 Navy.

Betcha those Colt Signature's are made by Uberti.

Someone's gonna say sumthin' about "homemade ball grease"...

But it ain't gonna be me...

Betcha those Colt Signature's are made by Uberti.

I'm not up on what Colt called their re-issues at what point in time. Sometimes you see them called Signature Series, other times, Black Powder series, etc. When they first came out, Phil Spangenbarger of Guns and Ammo, did an article on them and he said they were actually made by Iver Johnson, then in New York. I've heard later claims that Uberti or San Marcos made the parts and then Colt assembled the guns and finished them in Connecticut. They are finely finished weapons, whatever the case may be.

FWIW, some have claimed that Uberti made some 3rd gen SAA's too...

Not surprisingly, the late Val Forgett, Jr., chose this gun to replicate when he started Navy Arms Company in 1956. Working with Aldo Uberti in Italy, he selected the Third Model Navy, with its round trigger guard. Soon other companies were copying the ’51 Navy-but not Colt. Finally, in 1971 Colt began buying Uberti parts from Forgett to produce the first run of 2nd Generation Colt Navys in the Hartford plant. These slightly undersized guns, featuring early square-backed trigger guards and authentic Colt stampings, were made until 1973.

From 1974 to 1976 Colt obtained parts from one of its distributors, Lou Imperato. These re-issues (as Colts they aren’t really replicas) are known as C Series guns. From 1979 to 1982, Imperato made the entire gun in his New Jersey factory as “The Authentic Colt Blackpowder Series.” Using Italian parts, finished and assembled in the United States with Colt performing final inspection, these guns are known as the F Series.


From 1994 to 2002, 3rd Generation Colt-licensed ’51 Navys were made by Imperato’s renamed Colt Blackpowder Arms Co. Imperato’s son, Anthony, was involved with producing the finest Navys yet, the Signature Series, featuring Sam Colt’s signature on the nickel-plated backstrap. Using Italian parts, all finishing and fitting was done in the United States by CBAC.

The 3rd Generation Signature Series gun shown here has never been fired. Unfortunately, the original cardboard box with foam insert is missing. Nonetheless, it is worth $650-$800, its value being in its cachet as an authentic Colt. Thus, it is substantially more valuable than a non-Colt replica of the same gun in similar condition.

Same gun on my old, old rolltop desk.