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I can’t speak for “anyone” only myself. I mean that sincerely as many people express their belief and doubt and unbelief in different ways.

This gentleman said it better than I could, expanding upon the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith:

Scott Oliphint
January 15, 2013
iv. The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God.

One of the first things that must be firmly embedded in our minds, both as Christians and consequently as biblical apologists, is the absolute self-attesting authority of Scripture. It is generally agreed that, if any section of the Westminster Confession of Faith was more carefully crafted than another, it was the section that deals with Holy Scripture. You can, no doubt, understand some of the reasons for that, particularly in the face of opposition from Roman Catholicism. The Confession is concerned, particularly in section four of chapter one, to show that it is in Scripture's authority that we see its divinity and inspiration represented.

Notice first of all, that the divines are interested here in the authority of Scripture. And the intent of the paragraph is to set out for us the ground or reason why the Scriptures are authoritative, and thus why they ought to be believed and obeyed. They set out, very clearly, that the authority of Scripture does not, in any way, rest on the Church or its councils. Rather, its authority rests on its author, God, and is to be received because it is His Word. This is sometimes called the autopiston of Scripture, translated as self-attesting, or self-authenticating. What does that mean?

It does not mean self-evident. Self-authentication is an objective attribute, whereas self-evident refers more specifically to the knowing agent. It therefore does not mean that revelation as self-authenticated compels agreement. That which is self-authenticating can be denied. It does mean that it needs no other authority as confirmation in order to be justified and absolutely authoritative in what it says. This does not mean that nothing else attends that authority; there are other evidences, which the next section makes clear. What it does mean is that nothing else whatsoever is needed, nor is there anything else that is able to supersede this ground, in order for Scripture to be deemed authoritative. This is, at least in part, what God means when he says, in Isaiah 55, that His Word, simply by going out, will accomplish what He desires. This is the case because of what God's Word is in itself. It always goes out with authority, because it carries His own authority with it.

https://www.reformation21.org/confession/2013/01/chapter-14.php

Same with the Bible. Your individual choice.

Well speaking for myself you got it right up to here ^


That is, I got to a point in my life, and because I’m at my core sinful I continue to, when I realized that my best efforts were $h!t, hit my knees out of a complete lack of self confidence based upon past results, and begged God to forgive my sins and guide me through life.

Just my .02 and worth every bit you paid for it .

And yes, I lost... was a genuine loser. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Efw,....and others,

You have a sincere question and are seeking an answer that more should perhaps ask.
What about the Lord's supper or the Eucharist as some call it?

When He shared the loaf of unleavened bread with His disciples, was he being literal or not?

I come from a Roman Catholic background and have heard a lot of criticism towards those they call "fundamentalists" for interpreting the Bible literally.
However, the Catholic Churches official positions are that of taking the passages you cited as completely literal. This is one of their primary dogmas.
According to them, IF you do not believe that their priests call Christ down into the wafer and wine literally in a "hidden form":
They teach that you are damned with what they call a mortal sin.

What does the Bible teach about this?

"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.".
I Corinthians 11

When Jesus taught this recorded in the gospels, I ask, was He holding the bread and telling them, This bread is REALLY ME, not the man before you?
He knew He was about to be crucified in that bloody torture. Was He telling them, THAT BLOOD is NOT really what I mean, its the REAL blood that I am holding in this cup. I know it kind of looks and tastes like grape juice, but it's just a mystical form that you can not sense.

The Catholic priests might say that, but Jesus, the true High Priest, never did.

Go back and read and put yourself in the shoes of the disciples. Notice that as often as they share the unleavened bread and juice, they were to do it in
" remembrance of me ".

1. This was what we would call today a memorial.
The bread represented the broken body of Jesus
The wine/ juice represented the shed blood.
Jesus offered it as a type or picture of the reality, Not the other way around. Today we would hold a photograph or cell phone and say, "This is my family...etc". The picture is not the literal family members, but we don't take the obvious and misunderstand what is said. Jesus' choice of a picture was something that would continue to exist throughout the ages, not dependent on technology.

2. The priests desecrate the real sacrifice that was offered by their often resacraficing of what THEY call Christ's offering 2,000 years ago. See Hebrews 10 now.

"10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;...
14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified....
18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

Nothing can be added to or taken away from Christ's all sufficient sacrifice. It was once and paid for ALL sins past, present and future. The priest offer masses that can never take away sins.

Lastly, the Lord was NOT breaking His own laws by instituting canibolism and the drinking of literal blood.
Jesus was the only acceptable Sacrifice as He NEVER sinned. We do, which is why we are damned to hell.
"Our righteousness are as filthy rags." Think if how much you can buy with a dirty diaper.
Can our/your own good deeds add to what Jesus did?
No, a whole pile of diapers can't pay for even one lie.
It's not a matter of giving up sins, or sacrificing our lives as martyrs that amounts to anything.

Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

This is why He suffered and died.
He loves you/ us so much he endured the torture for every man and woman's sins. Then He died in our place to purchase the free gift of Everlasting Life that He now offers.


John 3:16,17,18
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "

Everyone reading this is already condemned.
We've all lied and done far worse than that. The object of our faith has been_____________(trying to keep the golden rule, treat others with kindness, baptism, giving up habits, etc.)
All of those things keep you condemned.
God requires us to quit trusting those things in the blanks and transfer your trust to His Son 100%.
He must be the object of your faith.

Ephesians 2:8, 9"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Grace = His kind favor
Saved from hell
Faith in His Son, not our works
Gift = He already paid for it and it cost Him His life.

When you completely trust Him and throw away the other stuff in filthy rags, then what does He promise to give you?
His gift of Everlasting Life.

When I received that gift, I said a simple prayer to Him;
Much like this.

"Dear God,

I don't deserve to go to heaven.
I deserve hell. Please save me from there forever.
Please give me that free gift of Everlasting life in heaven that Your Son paid for. I believe that He was punished for everything I ever did wrong, that He died for me and arose the third day.
I no longer trust in anything that I can do.
My trust is totally in Him now.
Thank You for your promise and the wonderful gift.

In Jesus Name,
Amen"

I hope that everyone who reads this will stop and take a moment to pray this too. God keeps His promises.

Not what I meant. Christian theology tells us 'believe this or face eternal damnation.' Not studying QM, or having little or no interest in it, holds no penalty.

Just watched this video of a prime reason why this mother needs to read my post.

https://www.infowars.com/posts/mask...atened-with-arrest-kicked-out-of-church/

I grew up in a Church of God family in rural Alabama. Church of God people are very similar to Baptists. Which leads me to one of the first problems I had with Christianity. If you Christians are all studying this one undeniable truth laid down in the Bible by God then how come there are 200 different denominations of Christianity in the US alone. (Far more than that world wide) Why isn't there just one church called Christian. Seems like even among Christians you guys can't get together on the one true path.

But one of my main problems is what a ridiculous system of justice the Christian god has arranged. Lets look at two case studies shall we.

Example one is a gentleman who is born in India. His parents are Hindu. All the people in his town are Hindu. All the people in his entire region of the country are Hindu. So surprise, surprise, he grows up to be a Hindu. Just like all of you would have if you had been born where he was. But I digress. This guy lives a peaceful honorable life. He doesn't lie, cheat or steal. He marries a woman and is very good to her. Takes care of her, never cheats on her, never harms her. They have some children who he also cares for like a very loving father. Works his ass off to provide for them. And eventually he passes away never having harmed a living soul on this earth. But he was a Hindu so for the sin of being a member of the predominate religion where he was born his soul is flung into a pit of fire where he burns and screams and suffers for all eternity without any hope of it ever ending. What a just punishment for such an evil man. Right? But it gets better. Lets examine case number 2.

Example two is a guy who was born in America. This guy spends most of his adult life raping and killing small children. In fact he runs up a total of about 30 boys under the age of 12 that he anally sodomized and then finished off by slitting their throats. Eventually he is captured and convicted of these crimes and rightfully sentenced to death. Luckily for him however he happened to be born where the one special correct religion was being taught. So as he is being led down the hallway on death row to the execution chamber to be put to death he decides to turn his life over to Jesus Christ. You know, all 6 minutes of it that he has left. And if in that one moment he really means it then he goes to heaven to party with god and Jesus in eternal bliss forever. Wow! What a great system of cosmic justice that makes great sense. Surely, only a god could devise a system this fair. But as a side benefit I guess that second guy will be an interesting soul for you guys to talk to in heaven. I mean you guys can tell him hunting stories and he can describe to you what it's like to slit a kids throat while you still have your penis up his rectum. You guys will just be best buds for all eternity together.

And spare me the cliche "We are saved by grace not deeds" horse manure. To me that is just a feeble line concocted by men to try and excuse a system under which such examples as above are possible. If the best your god can come up with is a system where Hitler gets the same punishment in the afterlife as a guy who just ate meat on a Friday then your god is either a monster or an idiot and I think that I will hold out for a better deity.

And what if Hitler accepted Jesus as his saviour just before be PPK'ed himself - that would place in heaven right now, and would make some conversations up there somewhat uncomfortable, but who's to judge?

Willto,

Please go back to my post on this subject.
It's the first and this is the third post so far.
It will explain grace.

One thing that we must understand is that there's not a just man upon the earth that doeth good and sinneth not. For all have sinned and come SHORT of the glory of God.

The hypothetical you gave shows the extremes that somehow there's some hindu that never told a lie, etc.
Now go look in the mirror before bed and ask yourself if you are that man. I don't think you will find perfection or the Saviour there. He only exists on the right hand of the Father.

". So as he is being led down the hallway on death row to the execution chamber to be put to death he decides to turn his life over to Jesus Christ. "

Whatever preacher told you this did not get his instructions from the Bible.
This is the opposite of what God requires for salvation according to His Word.

Please prayerfully read the post with an open KJBible.
Then maybe we can talk tomorrow.

Have a good night.

Show me where anything more is required.

“Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:30-31).

"For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10:13)

“For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-11)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works," (Ephesians 2:8-10)

I’ve learned there are rules of biblical interpretation that must be consistent. My take on John 6, is that it doesn’t necessarily need to apply in interpreting 1 Cor.11. But, Jesus being the bread of life and giving himself ties together. But cannibalism is not what he’s talking about. I think Jesus point is summed up in “I’m the bread of life” which refers to eternal spiritual life. So, I do believe in a spiritual realm, but won’t claim to have a full handle on it. Spirituality isn’t necessarily mystical, but too often is made so. The scriptures are not all literal. But they are true given proper interpretation.

I’m not making claims to be the best interpreter. I have no formal education towards that.

I think you’re saying that Jesus body and blood are spiritually present in the communion elements. Would that detract from the once for all sacrifice of Christ like transubstantiation?

Sorry, I do this from my phone and it’s hard to dialogue and communicate well.

Willto ....and others,

You have a sincere question and are seeking an answer that more should perhaps ask.
What about the Lord's supper or the Eucharist as some call it?

When He shared the loaf of unleavened bread with His disciples, was he being literal or not?

I come from a Roman Catholic background and have heard a lot of criticism towards those they call "fundamentalists" for interpreting the Bible literally.
However, the Catholic Churches official positions are that of taking the passages you cited as completely literal. This is one of their primary dogmas.
According to them, IF you do not believe that their priests call Christ down into the wafer and wine literally in a "hidden form":
They teach that you are damned with what they call a mortal sin.

What does the Bible teach about this?

"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.".
I Corinthians 11

When Jesus taught this recorded in the gospels, I ask, was He holding the bread and telling them, This bread is REALLY ME, not the man before you?
He knew He was about to be crucified in that bloody torture. Was He telling them, THAT BLOOD is NOT really what I mean, its the REAL blood that I am holding in this cup. I know it kind of looks and tastes like grape juice, but it's just a mystical form that you can not sense.

The Catholic priests might say that, but Jesus, the true High Priest, never did.

Go back and read and put yourself in the shoes of the disciples. Notice that as often as they share the unleavened bread and juice, they were to do it in
" remembrance of me ".

1. This was what we would call today a memorial.
The bread represented the broken body of Jesus
The wine/ juice represented the shed blood.
Jesus offered it as a type or picture of the reality, Not the other way around. Today we would hold a photograph or cell phone and say, "This is my family...etc". The picture is not the literal family members, but we don't take the obvious and misunderstand what is said. Jesus' choice of a picture was something that would continue to exist throughout the ages, not dependent on technology.

2. The priests desecrate the real sacrifice that was offered by their often resacraficing of what THEY call Christ's offering 2,000 years ago. See Hebrews 10 now.

"10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;...
14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified....
18
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

Nothing can be added to or taken away from Christ's all sufficient sacrifice. It was once and paid for ALL sins past, present and future. The priest offer masses that can never take away sins.

Lastly, the Lord was NOT breaking His own laws by instituting canibolism and the drinking of literal blood.
Jesus was the only acceptable Sacrifice as He NEVER sinned. We do, which is why we are damned to hell.
"Our righteousness are as filthy rags." Think if how much you can buy with a dirty diaper.
Can our/your own good deeds add to what Jesus did?
No, a whole pile of diapers can't pay for even one lie.
It's not a matter of giving up sins, or sacrificing our lives as martyrs that amounts to anything.

Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

This is why He suffered and died.
He loves you/ us so much he endured the torture for every man and woman's sins. Then He died in our place to purchase the free gift of Everlasting Life that He now offers.


John 3:16,17,18
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "

Everyone reading this is already condemned.
We've all lied and done far worse than that. The object of our faith has been_____________(trying to keep the golden rule, treat others with kindness, baptism, giving up habits, etc.)
All of those things keep you condemned.
God requires us to quit trusting those things in the blanks and transfer your trust to His Son 100%.
He must be the object of your faith.

Ephesians 2:8, 9"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Grace = His kind favor
Saved from hell
Faith in His Son, not our works
Gift = He already paid for it and it cost Him His life.

When you completely trust Him and throw away the other stuff in filthy rags, then what does He promise to give you?
His gift of Everlasting Life.

When I received that gift, I said a simple prayer to Him;
Much like this.

"Dear God,

I don't deserve to go to heaven.
I deserve hell. Please save me from there forever.
Please give me that free gift of Everlasting life in heaven that Your Son paid for. I believe that He was punished for everything I ever did wrong, that He died for me and arose the third day.
I no longer trust in anything that I can do.
My trust is totally in Him now.
Thank You for your promise and the wonderful gift.

In Jesus Name,
Amen"

I hope that everyone who reads this will stop and take a moment to pray this too. God keeps His promises.

I'll just say that for me, the older I get, the easier it is not to be "of the world", to borrow a phrase.

Although I'll admit that people and events tend to drag me back into it on a frequent basis.

I like to listen to *some* of the people who have had a transitional experience between the world and the rest. Most of those who seem genuine go through life with a much different perspective than everybody else.

Interesting speaker:

At this point B, i'm running with 100% con.

Exactly why I did not return a call request with Wabi. Just finish a stir and start another. Rick needs a place for such threads and I believe he once had one...

With all due respect cause I know you put a lot of effort into that but I do not see a single word in all of that which disputes the examples that I listed. According to the Bible all one must do is accept Jesus as their personal savior and ask for forgiveness to be saved. I even posted quotes to back that up. So sorry but the raping child murderer still gets a mansion in heaven for his last minute conversion.

No, but im hearing they do a lot of sweating in hell.

Damn right they had one Ed, it was a cluster fu-k extraordinaire! if peace, love and light are so true, pure and available, how is it nothing but a constant stinking bullshlt sandwich?

I'll tell ya how, weak little beta men demanding others think the way they do because they haven't the testicular fortitude to have accomplished enough in life that others can SEE and FOLLOW!...........................fu-k faith, look right here, you can see it!

And what does it take to get Graced?

1. Yer prolly the first to ever come up with that revolutionary idear. Im not sure several years of reflecting can let us know more truth than HIS message to us in the form of the Bible. I figure those believers who HE had deliver HIS message to HIS kids and the suffering they endured to deliver it may carry more authenticity re what HE wanted us to know than the diverse results of a diverse people doing several years of reflecting.

After years of reflecting i wonder just which sheep shagger came up with teh idea that he ought to print down his idea saying the Bible is adequate for reproach ........ I gurantee the author of that had a high IQ. In fact, that required an IQ high enough to know many would try to find the message they were comfortable with by doing several years of reflecting.
Im thinking the statement that one should not lean on their own understanding to be quite enlightening also. The shephard who jotted that down was pretty sharp too. Why, its almost as if that shephard knew all about you, many years before your parents did. Scarey smart.

2. You know what they say, "hope in one hand and .......".

Just so you know, I hope i win the publishers clearing house sweepstakes.