Somebody said to ask that question before you go up. If the guide says to leave him do you really want to use him. He may turn on you. He can make up any story.
In this incident, both guides and the expedition leader told their clients to leave Sharp and continue taking care of themselves. That's their job.
There are several examples of climbers and guides canceling their own ascent to assist climbers in need. If a rescue is possible, they'll do it.
Agreed. Also other instances where the Guide made bad choices and made it out alive. Clients didn’t because of them.
I would never go there in the first place. But if I were in that situation, I would try to save the guy. $50K be damned. Somewhere I heard something about, "No man left behind."
How do you want to brag to some suburbanites at the cocktail party? "I climbed Everest along with a gazillion other guys. Cost $50K." Or, "I paid $50K to climb Everest but on the way found a guy freezing to death. I abandoned my climb to save his life."
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
My wife's cousin is still up there. He wasn't portrayed correctly in the book - written by the client of a rival guide. The movie was a bit more accurate. He was good man.
Hell'uva thing calling your wife and saying good-bye while waiting to die.
Rob Hall?
That is the harsh reality of Everest. Trying to save Doug killed two. And that reality is why people left David Sharp . We judge from sea level or whatever your altitude is. Next time a jet flys over at cruising altitude, look up, THAT is the reality of where they go. Everyone that climbs Everest accepts that risk and reality.
Decades of voting for the lesser of two evils has gotten us just that.....
Everest is a point of reference showing how shallow the ocean of air we live in really is. 29,032 feet, 5 1/2 miles and most of us would be suffering at just half that.
5 1/2 miles is a short commute horizontally, do that vertically and you’re dead.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
I was hoping to get alot of discussion with both sides of the viewpoint
My wife was all about saving him - you do whatever you have to do, and when I mentioned $50K she said you couldn't put a price on life,
then I thought about David Sharp and him going with the cheapest outfitter, a group that basically got you a permit to climb and nothing else, his decision to forego a team, sherpas, oxygen and his decision to start his ascent late in the afternoon.
He put a price on his life and it wasn't very much.
I think you have to steel yourself to the idea you'll leave a man up there, even a person on your team.
I saw another story where a husband and wife went up together but got separated on the way down. I don't know how that happens, leaving your spouse? He made it down, she fell down a cliff and was too weak to make the climb back up, he got back to camp, realized she wasn't there and went back after her - and he fell off a cliff and died. They found her alive along enough for her to beg them not to leave her on the mountain. She died 30 minutes after the climbers found her. He was found much later.
I don't know, even after all that rationalization, you have to look yourself in the mirror. Can you live with that decision? If you had any humanity it would haunt you at some level
Last edited by KFWA; 04/03/21.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
They are in such a state they can't even bring their own trash back down...............
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
I'd have to consider the situation and most likely would come to the conclusion that if the poor guy can't walk on his own, then there's simply not a dang thing that I could do for him. It's not like you can just carry a guy down the hill to lower elevation. SO, I'd say a prayer for him and go on.
Laws aren't preventative measures. In other words, more laws won't prevent gun crime from happening.
I'd have to consider the situation and most likely would come to the conclusion that if the poor guy can't walk on his own, then there's simply not a dang thing that I could do for him. It's not like you can just carry a guy down the hill to lower elevation. SO, I'd say a prayer for him and go on.
As I said before, it's an issue of how to deal with their end of life because they can't be saved. The question is how do you handle your climb and your own life in the face of a lost cause. While it's callous to walk off and leave them, there's not a thing you can do to save them. So, what do you do that you can live with the rest of your life?
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
I’ve known several climbers. One that tried to climb Everest twice, and failed. They both said that if you can’t walk off the mountain, then you are going to die. It would be impossible for a climber to get another climber down the mountain by himself. You are heavily physically taxed and have a lot of equipment on that further reduces your agility. If you are going to try climbing the 8,000 meter mountains, you are diving with death.
It is July 2021 and you find yourself in the streets of Minneapolis doing everything you possibly can to survive the current riots and murders that are occurring because of Chauvin's acquittal.
People have been shooting at you and throwing rocks at you for hours... as the mob moves to the other side of the street you see a potential opportunity to escape behind some dumpsters.
As you are making your exit you come across a gravely wounded antifa thug behind the dumpsters.
You have an opportunity to help this person who is begging you for help but it's virtually incoherent.
In doing so you severely risk your own escape.
Kinda the same thing?
Not at all...it's more like you're a highly trained athlete in peak physical condition who has carried just enough supplies to endure a journey to the end and turn around. Every step at altitude is a grueling task that requires all of your effort despite your physical preparedness. You come across, a person in the last stages of their life, or a 150 lbs of gold sitting on the trail...you step over the person or object, because any other burden highly jeopardizes your life and has little success in recovering the person/gold.
Josh Deets: What we doin' up here, Captain? This ain't our land.
I used to do a bit of mountaineering. The choice to take on such an epic mountain as Everest... solo...
Is fraught with arrogance, insanity and quite possibly underlying Suicidal Tendencies.
If you are not actively engaging EVERY enemy you encounter... you are allowing another to fight for you... and that is cowardice... plain and simple.
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/mD6F1TT5/7p1feu-JHac-Hml2hk7i-FP2a-Ve-Krii86-s-U7-Bmc-Fva-O-k.png)
