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So, what's the problem with "shills"? #15976704 04/08/21
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Idaho_Shooter Offline OP
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Having grown up on a farm with cattle, I have a lifelong experience with auctions from both sides. Cattle auctions, horse auctions, equipment auctions, farm dispersal auctions, estate auctions.

And I hear all the time from others, "I refuse to attend 'such and such auction', those [bleep] have shills in the audience.

I always looked at it as sour grapes. A guy is just pissed because he did not get the super good deal he had hoped for.

If I have something to sell, I hire an auction house to get me the best price they can. I care not if the auction house buys my item, hoping they can get a better price at a later date. That happens all the time. The Auction House bids on an item. Sometimes they end up buying it. About every six months, the Auction House has a huge lot of merchandise gathered up and they hold their own auction to dispose of it. Sometimes I see that some items never leave the lot. Apparently they even buy back some of their own merchandise.

As a buyer, I know what I am willing to pay. I do not get into "Bidding Contests". I have no problem passing when the price gets higher than I wish to pay. If it is the previous owner bidding against me, or the auction house, why would I care?

As a seller, it is a common occurrence for an owner to bid on his own livestock or equipment, if it looks like it is going to sell for less than he thinks it is worth. If the owner "buys it back" he still has to pay the auction fees.

What could be more fair than that?


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
BP-B2

Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15976725 04/08/21
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With regards to GB and ebay, the shill has set up a throw away account. If I’m the only bidder on a no reserve auction that opens at say $100 and bid a maximum of $400, the shill comes along and runs the bid up. How’s that an honest auction? I’ve had that happen a couple times only to find my maximum and then magically the shill bidder goes away and suddenly a second one has bid right under my maximum. Cool trick huh?

If there’s multiple real bidders this is a mute point. In today’s sellers market, I doubt it’s happening much.

Last edited by Ben_Lurkin; 04/08/21.
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15976730 04/08/21
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Idaho_Shooter Offline OP
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It is only dishonest if the shill somehow knows what you maximum bid is.

As long as the shill has the chance that you will drop the bid in his lap, it is an honest auction.

Are you accusing Gunbroker of bidding against you, up to one bid under your max? Or possibly accusing Gunbroker of informing the seller of your maximum bid?


My ideal as a conservative:

That each person may reap as he/she has sown.
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15976751 04/08/21
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I don’t have a problem if the shill gets the bid and ends up eating the fees. I’ve only had the scenario I described where he/they are screwing around to figure out my maximum happen a couple of times in maybe 20 years of fooling around on GB and that’s only been when it was a buyers market.

The best way to beat this is to watch the clock and bid right at the end of the end of the auction. On GB, they don’t allow you to cancel a bid once you get close to the ending so game on.

The online auction sites typically have a dim view of this and will ban someone if they determine this is what’s happening.

Last edited by Ben_Lurkin; 04/08/21.
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977037 04/09/21
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I grew up going to farm auctions, mostly equipment and livestock. If a seller was caught bidding on his own equipment or livestock, he was ejected from the sale, along with whatever he had brought to sell. There was no such thing as 'buying back' your own stuff. If it didn't bring the price you wanted, you "PO'ed" it and took it back home.


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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977086 04/09/21
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A shill has no intention of buying an item so the practice is dishonest. Price your schitt at what you’re willing to accept.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977093 04/09/21
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Shill
Person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization to assist in a fraud


Old Turd- Deplorable- Unrepentant Murderer

Just "Campfire Riffraff and Trash"!



Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977130 04/09/21
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When I see a shill at an in-person auction, I tend to bid him up and drop out just so he's left holding the bag. Once he knows what I'm doing, he may back off when I'm interested in something. I've had auctioneers attempt some fancy footwork to keep me from doing it, but they started the game and they should deal with the consequences. I generally, though, stay away from auctioneers who regularly use shills. Paying attention to bidder numbers helps. For example, one auction housenear here has all their shill numbers in the 60's, so you get to know what's going on if you're paying attention.

With on-line auctions, there's a wider potential audience and the need for shills should decrease, but as Ben eluded to, that's not always the case. Shills simply prostitute the notion of fair market value and arms-length transactions.

Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977162 04/09/21
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gunswizard Offline
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In some areas shill bidding is considered unethical and an auctioneer who knowingly allows it can lose his license. It is a dishonest practice.

Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977182 04/09/21
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Reserves allow a shadow bidder to run bids up without getting stuck with the sale.

Set a secret reserve price of $2000......shadow bid to $1999.99. If the legitimate bidder doesn't bite after that......the sale is not completed.

Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
It is only dishonest if the shill somehow knows what you maximum bid is.

As long as the shill has the chance that you will drop the bid in his lap, it is an honest auction.

Are you accusing Gunbroker of bidding against you, up to one bid under your max? Or possibly accusing Gunbroker of informing the seller of your maximum bid?


"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson

Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today.
Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.

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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: MIKEWERNER] #15977314 04/09/21
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No more dishonest than sockpuppets.


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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977391 04/09/21
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gunswizard Offline
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WTF do sockpuppets have to do with shill bidding ?

Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977445 04/09/21
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Place a bid that you are willing to pay, if it sells for more move along. On the 24 HOUR CAMPFIRE I see some pretty high asking prices, if they asking price is more than I am willing to pay. I move on. If you don't want to continue bidding on an item listed on GB, just stop and quite whining. If a shill wills the auction the sellers ends up paying the broker fees PLUS the sales tax in most cases, witch can be pretty steep..I sometimes see people pissing and moaning about high prices here, so as above just move along. One man's trash is another man's gold.

BTW it is a seller's market and all gun prices are very high. I'm amazed at some of the prices paid for guns.If you want it buy it, life is short!

Last edited by Switch; 04/09/21.
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: gunswizard] #15977530 04/09/21
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Oldelkhunter Offline
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Originally Posted by gunswizard
In some areas shill bidding is considered unethical and an auctioneer who knowingly allows it can lose his license. It is a dishonest practice.


Absolute total agreement.


Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15977682 04/09/21
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Jerryv Online Content
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It's not much different from an auction with a hidden reserve. It just means that the seller is ashamed of his asking price and hopes to get you there without revealing it. I've had similar experiences in person where the seller won't name a price. They just want you to make an offer. They are hoping you don't know what something is worth and will make a stupid high offer. It is best to just walk away from those situations because you are just going to get bent over.

Jerry


Minnesota; Land of 10,000 Taxes
Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: gunswizard] #15979690 04/09/21
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Originally Posted by gunswizard
WTF do sockpuppets have to do with shill bidding ?


Both are posing as legitimate while they are in fact frauds. It doesn't seem that hard to connect to me. Are you off your meds again?


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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Jerryv] #15979703 04/09/21
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Originally Posted by Jerryv
It's not much different from an auction with a hidden reserve. It just means that the seller is ashamed of his asking price and hopes to get you there without revealing it. I've had similar experiences in person where the seller won't name a price. They just want you to make an offer. They are hoping you don't know what something is worth and will make a stupid high offer. It is best to just walk away from those situations because you are just going to get bent over.

Jerry


More like the Seller and Shill(s) are trying to drive the price up by getting a person worked up over an auction. They are counting on the buyer trying to not lose the auction .


Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15980007 04/10/21
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The last in person auction I went to was a couple years ago. It was a gun shop that the owner was retiring and selling out. It was towards the end and they were selling ammo and reloading supplies. I was bidding and immediately got outbid by someone across the room. I couldn’t tell who it was. I finally quit bidding and when the hammer fell, the spotter across the room ask what number was. I told him the spotter directly in front of me had my bid. The jack wagons had me bidding against myself, which is what I expected. I made it known that what they were doing was not honorable and they said it was an honest mistake. I posted a review and told what happened to several of my auctioneer friends and the word got out.

Last edited by Crappie_Killer; 04/10/21.

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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: MIKEWERNER] #15980480 04/10/21
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MIKEWERNER: Now you're getting it!
Shop in person for your gun needs - whenever possible.
Avoid the scams, scammers, dishonest sellers, dishonest condition describers, shill bidders and their ilk.
Hold into the wind
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Re: So, what's the problem with "shills"? [Re: Idaho_Shooter] #15980609 04/10/21
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I have never had a problem buying for the price I was willing to pay. There's a Marlin lever 22 en route I picked up a few days ago.


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