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Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by Whelenman
It all boils down to the fact that when you’re arrested get
In the cop car peacefully , and there would be a problem!

DUH!!



What it really all boils down to is this...........The Negro brain simply cannot understand that there are laws that people are supposed to follow, instead their brains are still being controlled by jungle DNA that has yet to make the jump from jungle to civilization.





I keep saying this.. They have been conditioned to think it's okay to fight the cops, and that the will get away with doing it. Both by not being held accountable, and winning in court. Nevermind the paydays.


Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.

Rehabilitation is way overrated.

Orwell wasn't wrong.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Cumminmecowboy be like: “Oh yeah that makes sense. Carotid artery’s. Blah, blah, blah.”


That’s the problem. Too many people think they know wtf happened based on eye witness accounts of the arrest by a bunch of nobodies, and the limited, and much overhyped video.

The defense has done a nice job prying out of the professional witnesses the street reality of long standing training practices of police agencies. That, and it’s methods don’t produce death in most cases, unless there’s some underlining issues with a suspect.

Looking forward to the defenses turn at the plate. I see home runs flying outta the courtroom.


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Don't assume any conservative will get a fair trial in Minneapolis or Hennepin County MN...

Getting a government job almost seems to have a requirement of being a card carrying DFL DemocRAT....

These so called " witnesses" are saying exactly the Hennepin County Attorney's Office is telling them to say...


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You can sure tell the difference in demeanor from the Sates witness and the defense witnesses.
Eric Nelson fleshed it out nicely, yesterday and today, he kicked azz big time.

If Chauvin spends any time in jail..... whites should riot.

George's brother, lol, wont be getting any acting gigs with those Crocodile tears lol.

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Originally Posted by steve4102
Originally Posted by 700LH
How can he be convicted of murder, when at its worst it was manslaughter?
The cartoon continues until it will be "That's all folks"

How?

Our Justice System is corrupt and has been politicized.


That is a very kind assessment of our current justice system; in reality, it's far, far worse than that.

I would not feel warm & fuzzy if my life was in the jury's hands.

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Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by Whelenman
It all boils down to the fact that when you’re arrested get
In the cop car peacefully , and there would be a problem!

DUH!!



What it really all boils down to is this...........The Negro brain simply cannot understand that there are laws that people are supposed to follow, instead their brains are still being controlled by jungle DNA that has yet to make the jump from jungle to civilization.


LMAO

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Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


That's why you recall the witness.


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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.

You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?

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Originally Posted by dassa
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?


Heh.
There were a handful here that said that.


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Originally Posted by JamesJr
Originally Posted by Whelenman
It all boils down to the fact that when you’re arrested get
In the cop car peacefully , and there would be a problem!

DUH!!



What it really all boils down to is this...........The Negro brain simply cannot understand that there are laws that people are supposed to follow, instead their brains are still being controlled by jungle DNA that has yet to make the jump from jungle to civilization.

Yep. Plus that is what your grandpaps was terrlled by his grandpaps.

LMAO


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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by dassa
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?


Heh.
There were a handful here that said that.


Still not as fugked up as wearing a diaper on yer face


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Originally Posted by BobBrown
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by dassa
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?


Heh.
There were a handful here that said that.


Still not as fugked up as wearing a diaper on yer face



Or getting kicked out of a public park.


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I hold Mr.Denton's legal knowledge in the highest esteem.

But, I still think that officer will be convicted, just to keep the peace.

How ironic is that?

Of course, it will be overturned on appeal.


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Another Pawn.

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Originally Posted by ltppowell
I hold Mr.Denton's legal knowledge in the highest esteem.

But, I still think that officer will be convicted, just to keep the peace.

How ironic is that?

Of course, it will be overturned on appeal.


What do you think the possibility of a mid-trial is, Lt.?


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Best thing that can happen is for the trial to last until ~Nov and the verdict to be read in Jan.


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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by BobBrown
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by dassa
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?


Heh.
There were a handful here that said that.


Still not as fugked up as wearing a diaper on yer face



Or getting kicked out of a public park.


You act so petty when you’re offended , Jew Geezer


FUGK CCP

It’s time to WAKE UP
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Originally Posted by BobBrown
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by BobBrown
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by dassa
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by cooper57m
I was busy yesterday pm so had to record the cross-exam of the medical examiner (ME) and watched it this morning. The defense scored some points, just how many and how effective they will be is questionable. He's what I got from the testimony yesterday and some questions I would have liked asked by the defense:

The ME put down the officail cause of death as a homicide (as the term is used medically, not legally - meaning death caused by the actions of another). He noted on his official cause of death that it was complicated (other contributing causes) by Mr. Floyd having an enlarged heart (most likely caused by high blood pressure), artery blockages (70% and 90%) to the heart and high levels of fentanyl and meth in his system. In the cross-examination, he admitted that in some cases, the artery blockages and drug levels alone are enough to cause death by themselves and that he has made conclusions to that effect on other autopsies which he has performed. He stated that he did not see the video when he started his autopsy (not wanting to be biased) but had seen it after the autopsy and before making his determination of the cause of death. He had been told, however, that Mr. Floyd had been in an altercation with police and restraint involving force to his neck/shoulder area was used.

What I would have liked the defense attny to have asked: (which weren't)

- Could you tell, or did you calculate how much force or weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on Mr. Floyd at various times while Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground?

- If a man in Mr. Floyd's condition, as you found him on the date of your autopsy, was to have undergone a medical procedure to correct his artery disease and had died from a mistake or miscalculation of his Dr., would a death like that be considered a homicide, accident, or natural causes? I'm guessing the answer would have been it would not be a homicide. (The correlation being an argument that unlike a Dr. in such a scenario, Mr. Chauvin would have no way of knowing of Mr. Floyd's contributing factors/medical conditions. Such knowledge might have been useful in order for Officer Chauvin to factor in or help determine what level of restraint was unsafe for Mr. Floyd.

- Absent the complications/other contributing factors which you noted in your report, would you expect the type of restraint used on Mr. Floyd to be fatal to an otherwise healthy person of Mr. Floyd's age and size? (Probably would yield an objection but even if allowed or not, it would put that question in the jury's mind.)

- Mr. ME, I see you met with PD detectives, people from State Gov't and the FBI, (which he did) before issuing your cause of death; did anyone put any pressure on you to come to your conclusion of this being a homicide? (Having been in State Gov't myself, I know that in cases/projects that the State has an interest in the outcome, considerable pressure can be brought to bear.Though rarely is that done via letters or memos - no paper trail. Having to answer under threat of perjury might have gotten an honest answer.)

- When making your determination of the cause of death, did you think about the social or political consequences if you were to make a determination other than, homicide by the actions of the police? (Plant that seed of doubt. Some in the jury might not see how such a thought would not be a consideration, consciously or unconsciously.)

IMO, what hurt the defense is on the re-direct the prosecutor got the ME say that despite all of Mr. Floyd's health issues and drug usage that the ME felt the major cause of death was the force used by the police. His conclusion, therefore, is that had the police not used that level of force on Mr. Floyd, he would have survived the encounter. That may not be accurate, but it is a pretty definitive statement and could be one given plenty of weight by the jury.

The defense better have a slew of qualified and renowned ME's and experts coming up with differing conclusions as to cause of death. I would expect that they do, but they will also likely have the stigma of being paid for their testimony. IMO if the defense does not have such witnesses, Mr. Chauvin is likely going up the river.



Excellent comments. I've not been overly impressed with Chauvin's lawyer. He seems to have left an awful lot on the table and not challenged the prosecution when he should have. For example, phat fire-fighter gal was allowed to repeatedly opine that Chavin killed Floyd with nary a whisper of objection from Nelson. And your questions above are the kind that should have been asked, it seems to me.


You still planning on putting a slug in Chauvin's chest?


Heh.
There were a handful here that said that.


Still not as fugked up as wearing a diaper on yer face



Or getting kicked out of a public park.


You act so petty when you’re offended , Jew Geezer


Let us know when you decide who you are.

Until then go fug up another thread with your inane stupidity.
Thanks


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Originally Posted by Old_Toot
Originally Posted by ltppowell
I hold Mr.Denton's legal knowledge in the highest esteem.

But, I still think that officer will be convicted, just to keep the peace.

How ironic is that?

Of course, it will be overturned on appeal.


What do you think the possibility of a mid-trial is, Lt.?


No idea man. Things are way different up there. I've never seen a trial last more than a couple of days...ever for serial murderers, much less a doper dying in custody.


The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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