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WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? #15990987 04/13/21
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RedneckRob Offline OP
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Okay I have a problem I've never had before. Hornady has a load for the 6.5x52 Carcano that uses WLRM primers. I have FLRM primers on hand. I have never substituted a different brand (primer) before so l don't know what to do to start loading. Do I start at the lowest powder load like always or in the middle or where ?

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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15991026 04/13/21
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plainsman456 Online Content
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Drop 5-10% from the charge you have been using.

Or from the load that you want to try from your manual.

And work back up.

Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15991084 04/13/21
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RedneckRob Offline OP
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Thank you very much.

Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15991088 04/13/21
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boatanchor Offline
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Originally Posted by RedneckRob
Okay I have a problem I've never had before. Hornady has a load for the 6.5x52 Carcano that uses WLRM primers. I have FLRM primers on hand.


Most refer to FLRM's as 215's......take an Advil back off a grain and proceed

Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: boatanchor] #15991101 04/13/21
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Originally Posted by boatanchor
Originally Posted by RedneckRob
Okay I have a problem I've never had before. Hornady has a load for the 6.5x52 Carcano that uses WLRM primers. I have FLRM primers on hand.


Most refer to FLRM's as 215's......take an Advil back off a grain and proceed

This


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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15998130 04/16/21
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ClarkEMyers Offline
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First research John Barsness on the topic. There are a trio of general gun gack books as well as a smaller reloading book, a newsletter and more. An early treatment ~ 15 years old is an article on Loaddata.

I emphasize that as with any other source of reloading data the latest version should always be controlling.
Quote
....This means a load that produces a very safe 58,000 psi with one primer can produce an unsafe 70,000 psi with another—and often there’s no way for the home handloader to tell the difference.....
Emphasis added. There is some information in traditional pressure signs but so much noise as to make using traditional pressure signs meaningless. A rifle fired with over pressure loads long enough will eventually fail with a load well within the pressure range considered safe enough without abuse so working up in a range of useless pressure signs doesn't do much good.
........
Quote
.......What all this means is that we should be very, very careful about which primers we use. The safest technique is to use the exact same primer listed in the loading manual for any load. Unfortunately, this means stocking almost every primer made, an expensive proposition. Instead I generally start with either CCI 200 (standard) or Federal 215 (magnum) primers in rifle loads. Both of these primers are among the mildest of their type so should produce safe pressures....
again Emphasis added. I read this to say that at the time of writing Federal 215 was among the mildest of magnum primers. I do not read this to say that at the time of writing Federal 215 was milder than other non-magnum primers. I certainly do not read this to say that 15 years after the date of writing the assertions are guaranteed to be still true.

But swapping in a Federal 215 is presumably swapping a milder primer into the load with Winchester and therefore likely safe enough - is gun is dangerous.

Again, I hasten to add there is more recent material out there than the quoted material and the more recent material should control any use. Once into wildcatting territory it pays to read it all.

It should go without saying but I'll say anyway that nothing has changed to make swapping primers any safer.

Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15998193 04/16/21
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bsa1917hunter Offline
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Op, just do like boatanchor said and back off a grain and then work up. You'll know when you see or experience pressure signs. If you don't know what to look for, you shouldn't be handloading... Not directed at the op, but the post before this one.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If one is this paranoid, he needs to be using factory bought ammo, or take up golf..


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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15998278 04/16/21
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What powder are you using that requires a Winchester Magnum primer in such a small case? Perhaps you should consider using a standard LR primer and work back up using a chronograph to check velocity.


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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: bsa1917hunter] #15998510 04/16/21
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Mule Deer Offline
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bsa,

The problem with traditional pressure signs is they often don't show up until around 70,000 PSI, or even more. Which is why I tend to reply far more on the chronograph than anything else: If the load gets significantly more velocity than various sources indicate it should, then the load is probably over the SAAMI maximum average pressure, regardless of what the primer looks like, or whether there's no ejector-hole imprint on the case head.

Of course, some people would suggest that as long as there aren't any "pressure signs" the load is safe in that rifle. And it is--at that pressure. But pressure changes with temperature, and even the most temp-resistant powders all tend to gain velocity (and hence pressure) as the thermometer rises above about 80 degrees. All of which is why SAAMI tends to be somewhat conservative in their pressure specs.


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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #15998574 04/16/21
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Originally Posted by RedneckRob
Okay I have a problem I've never had before. Hornady has a load for the 6.5x52 Carcano that uses WLRM primers. I have FLRM primers on hand. I have never substituted a different brand (primer) before so l don't know what to do to start loading. Do I start at the lowest powder load like always or in the middle or where ?


One of the problems with primers is that many manufacturers dink around with them. As I noted in one of my GUN GACK books, there have been at least three versions of the CCI 450, their small-rifle magnum primer, since it was introduced in the 1960s. The first just had a thicker cup, to withstand the higher pressures of newer cartridges, but the amount of priming compound was the same as in the CCI 400 "non-magnum" primer. The next version used more of the same priming compound, but in the early 1990's CCI switched to a hotter compound--and at the same time also started using the hotter compound in their large-rifle magnum primer, the CCI 250.

All of which is yet another reason I tend to rely far more on chronographs than "pressure signs." If muzzle velocity is in the ball-park listed by various manuals, then pressure probably is as well.

Of course, one problem with the 6.5x52 Carcano is there aren't many data sources anymore.

I am guessing the load you're working with is one of those listed for the 160-grain Hornady round-nose bullet--which is the only bullet they used the WLRM for. All their other Carcano data uses the standard WLR. I don't know the reason for that, or their warning: "Only Winchester WLRM primers should be used with this data." You might contact Hornady and ask--especially since these days it's hard to find ANY primers, much less the "correct" primer for such a specific load.


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Re: WLRM vrs FLRM primers ? [Re: RedneckRob] #16014076 04/20/21
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RedneckRob Offline OP
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First of all I would like to thank each and everyone of you who replied.
Yes it is the 160 grain round nose bullet. The powder is H414. I'm going to call and or email Horndy tomorrow.
I've never had to use a different component than what the manual list. Normally I'm well stocked but I let the Winchester primers go with a Browning X-Bolt 300 WSM along with the other reloading supplies for it.The only mag primers I found are Feds thus my concern.
Again, thank ya'll.


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