Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Clover leafs one day scattered the next??

I'm perplexed. I took my M70 358 to the range to try a few different loads. One 50gr of H4895 and a 200gr soft point cloverleafed three shots at 50 yards. I'm thinking cool so I loaded up some more. I had some scope adjustments to make so again I shot at 50 yards to get to a tad high before I moved tp 100. That group was 2 inches at least. The load was exactly the same as before. Why???

The scope and/or mounts are where I'd look.

Checked them they were good.

You noted you loaded more after that nice group. Any chance the charge changed or maybe components from a different lot #, etc.? How about sizing of the brass? Would those cases have varied from the first go-round?

Also, a single group can be a fluke.

Did you clean your bore after the good groups? I've had a couple of rifles that needed at least several foulers before they'd settle down after a good cleaning.

How did you check the scope?

I use a collimator between shots.

50 yards is pretty close to tell how accurate a load is.

You made a scope adjustment then things went south. Hmmm. Scope brand? As said, a collimator will show a lot.

Use the same rest? Position the rifle the same way? Clean bore? Dirty bore? Cold bore? Everything the same?

Did you adjust the scope before shooting the second group at 50? Quite a few scopes require at least a shot or two to settle down again after adjusting.

LEUPOLD?

Pardon me if I got this wrong, but did you fire one 3-shot group and then decide that was the beans? I’d want more evidence than that, probably three at least.

The good news is it’s only April, unless you’re planning a Spring bear hunt.

Welcome to reality.

First thing, 3 shots is not enough to tell you a load is good. It can be enough to tell you a load is no good because a group won't get any smaller if you add more holes, but you can wobble 3 shots together fairly often even with a bad load.

Load testing at 50 yards is an absolute waste of components with a rifle. Do your testing at the maximum distance you might shoot. You can reasonably interpolate but you cannot extrapolate.

Tom

You made too many changes at once to draw any conclusions from load workup. If the 50-grain load is the right one, and not a fluke, it will once again prove itself.

Hmm. Variables that come to mind - without judgement - just spitballing.

Morning coffee? Maybe it’s not a good load after all? Stock creating unequal pressure on one side/portion of the barrel? Same front bag, same rear bag? Fore end location on the front bag always the same? Front or rear sling swivel stud dragging on the bags? Clean barrel/fouled barrel? Was the action removed from the stock between sessions - if so were action screws re-tightened similarly?

I’d vet the load with other supporting sources & perhaps drop down to the starting load just to shoot light loads and confirm that flinching isn’t subconsciously part of the equation.

*Not a gun writer here but have experienced the same as you & these were the things I considered.

LMAO

Change lot# of powder?

Change seating depth?

Change to a different brand of brass?

Wind pick up today?

use a different rest?

Check stock screws and scope ring screws

I don't know for sure but if I find a load that I like, I make a second trip to the range to "proof" the load (make sure it was not a fluke). If it repeats, then I am good and load up how ever many I want.
I have had a scope hold rock steady until I made an adjustment and then just blow up and throw shots all over.
Hope you find what is wrong.

Everything regarding the second load was exactly the same as the first one. Same brass, primer, bullet, powder and I weigh each charge. I checked the screws on the rings and the base screw and they were all tight. I use a Bulls bag for the front and rear support and to the best of my knowledge the rifle was supported in the same way each time. I did make the adjustment to the scope prior to shooting the second group. The scope is an old Redfield 2x-7x wide angle and has been on the gun for decades. As the first group was three shots I didn't clean the rifle prior to shooting the second group. I didn't check the stock screws and that's a good idea and will do so today. As far as shooting at 50 yards I seldom have a shot opportunity past 75 yards where i hunt.
This rifle has shot 48gr of H4895 and 225gr Sierras accurately but I have bought a bunch of 35 cal bullets lately and thought I'd try something different. It will be back to the range for sure and even though it's only the end of April it needs to get above freezing first. LOL

Is it above freezing when you're hunting with that rifle?

Barely. I was planning on using it on our late doe season which is the last of December. I do however have a heated blind (comforts of old age) so it's not subjected to the elements.