As a general rule, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.
Situational awareness and the proper mindset > caliber.
That said, there are enough small "major" caliber guns out there that .380 in the pocket would be my minimum, but I've kept it to 45 or 9mm Shield for years without expending much effort or buying special cloths.
Compared to the .25ACP, I would have to agree... Years ago I obtained the Beretta M21 in .22rf for my wife - the tip-up barrel feature is great for anyone w/o the wrist strength to work the slide.. So far, it's performed well...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
There is no doubt that the 22, is superior ballistically, to the 25.
Not exactly, in fact wrong if the two are compared with identical gr weight and barrel length.
Most comparison data is skewed as the 22 is usually from a 16+ rifle whereas the 25 is from a tiny pocket pistol.
They are damn near identical when comparing apples to apples.
Real life test here.
I've seen 25 bounce off of an alligators head but a 22LR pentetrated the head
A guy I trust told me a story about a .25 being stopped by a guy's leather jacket. I'll stick with my .380 for a pocket gun, but feel better with something bigger.
I’m sure someone has already said it in this thread but I’m not going to check. Any pistol is superior to no pistol. And that’s the advantage to the pocket pistols. Very easy to throw one in your pocket as you head out the door instead of the minor production involved with carry larger guns. Much more likely to have it on you. Is it ideal if you face an armed attacker? No. But will it dissuade someone from attacking you once it is pulled out? Quite possibly.
There is no doubt that the 22, is superior ballistically, to the 25.
Not exactly, in fact wrong if the two are compared with identical gr weight and barrel length.
Most comparison data is skewed as the 22 is usually from a 16+ rifle whereas the 25 is from a tiny pocket pistol.
They are damn near identical when comparing apples to apples.
Real life test here.
Paul Harrell is a good guy and he tries to use some science in his vids, however there are a lot of variables he typically ignores.
What I said was, a .22 is better ballistically than a .25. That is absolutely true. Would a 25 be better if there was a wider variety of loads for it? Quite possibly, but there aren't so there it f u cking is. If you want to take two loads from both calibers and compare them you might find the 25 is better, but not when all available loads are considered. Kind of like having five varieties of apples to compare to twenty varieties of oranges.
IME the 25 may be more reliable though. Easy enough in that instance to compare Beretta's of the two calibers, since they are essentially the same gun.
I always was of the opinion that if I ever had to use it, my intentions would be to empty the entire magazine into the assailant.
Last edited by kaywoodie; 04/29/21.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
I always was of the opinion that if I ever had to use it, my intentions would be to empty the entire magazine into the assailant.
I currently have two, a Kel-Tec P32 and a Ruger LCP, the last standard rendition (with improved trigger pull) before they switched to the LCP II. Wait, I also still have my Sig P238, which is a bit large for the category, but I guess it still qualifies. So, that's three. Currently, the most carried is the Kel-Tec, since it's the smallest and lightest. It only gets carried in very specific kinds of circumstances, such as when I've got a doctor's appointment.
The only thing smaller that I have is my NAA Mini Revolver, which also only rarely gets carried, and mostly when it is carried, is a backup to my carry gun rather than a primary.
The reason I carry a gun is because I might have to get into a gunfight with it, against one, or multiple attackers intent on doing me or my loved ones harm. I choose what I carry based on that. The smallest gun I carry is something I would be willing to get into a fight with.
I do not choose something because its cute, or fits in a shirt pocket, or other such convenience. Many tend to believe pocket guns are talismans and merely producing them will magically ward off evil. That may work. Until it doesn't. I am not willing to risk my life or the lives of my children on using that "hope" as a strategy. They often have a word for people who use "hope" as their strategic defense plan. "Hopefully the bad people won't hurt me that bad" Hopefully he just takes my property and lets me live". That word is "Victim". I saw that plenty over the years carrying a gun for a living.
To each their own, but you won't catch me carrying cute little talismans. I will continue to carry guns I am willing to get into a gunfight with.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
As a general rule, it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.
Situational awareness and the proper mindset > caliber.
That said, there are enough small "major" caliber guns out there that .380 in the pocket would be my minimum, but I've kept it to 45 or 9mm Shield for years without expending much effort or buying special cloths.
This^
I view defensive pistols a bit differently in retirement then when I was active duty. I carry a pistol to get me and my family off the "X" and to get to a better weapon. If I were forced to use my pistol there is a huge probability that it would be at extremely close range, maybe even contact shooting. Something to consider is that if you go after an active shooter and burn him down, in the eyes of the panicked people involved, any other citizen with a gun and the arriving police, you could reasonably be confused with the instigator.
As far as what is suitable, that's on you. I want whatever I carry to cause major cavitation in the thoracic cavity. Remember the goal is to stop the threat. No I wouldn't want to catch a 22 round but it essentially equates to harsh language to a 200# man wearing a hefty coat and full of adrenaline.
Just my 2 cents.
Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
The reason I carry a gun is because I might have to get into a gunfight with it, against one, or multiple attackers intent on doing me or my loved ones harm. I choose what I carry based on that. The smallest gun I carry is something I would be willing to get into a fight with.
I do not choose something because its cute, or fits in a shirt pocket, or other such convenience. Many tend to believe pocket guns are talismans and merely producing them will magically ward off evil. That may work. Until it doesn't. I am not willing to risk my life or the lives of my children on using that "hope" as a strategy. They often have a word for people who use "hope" as their strategic defense plan. "Hopefully the bad people won't hurt me that bad" Hopefully he just takes my property and lets me live". That word is "Victim". I saw that plenty over the years carrying a gun for a living.
To each their own, but you won't catch me carrying cute little talismans. I will continue to carry guns I am willing to get into a gunfight with.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Murdered an old hunting pard I had known since he was about 12. A single round from a POS Italian .380 auto. Mike was a big kid, former army, and an experienced bouncer. He was moonlighting at the bar in Marble. Only reason he tried to disarm the assailant was (a) the auto jammed when the assailant tried to chamber a round and (b) assailant was attempting to execute a former girlfriend in the establishment. He already had auto to her head and under restraint when he discovered the chamber was empty.
Anyway he cleared the auto and put a single round in Michael’s chest in the melee.
Assailant went from there to another ex-girlfriends house and executed her, her then boyfriend, her teenage daughter, and a friend of the daughter who was there for a sleepover.
A bad scene all the way around.
Founder Ancient Order of the 1895 Winchester
"Come, shall we go and kill us venison? And yet it irks me the poor dappled fools, Being native burghers of this desert city, Should in their own confines with forked heads Have their round haunches gored."
About as "cute" as I'll go is my Glock 48, but I'm just not comfortable with even a 9mm
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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