Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters underrated cartridge ??

30-30

I have little experience with short / fat rounds except for the 45/70 and the 450 Marlin. The Marlin is superior imo. I sold the .45/70
I prefer bottle necked cartridges longer and have a gentler shoulder, so I would always take the 25/06 over the wssm or the Weatherby.
My peculiarities I guess.
The 25/06 is a dandy, and I have taken Bull Elk and Moose with it....just use a quality bullet.
These days is is underrated...so is the .450

6.5 Grendel

here is another underrated cartridge 22 K Hornet , does plenty with not much powder too , its cheap to shoot and no recoil

Using your rule of thumb with the Nosler case capacity numbers, the 25/06 has about 30% more capacity than the WSSM (63.5 vs 48.8). Dividing 30% by 4 yields about 7.5% increase in MV potential at equal pressure. 7.5% of 3000 would be 225 fps That would imply that the WSSM would have to be loaded to a higher pressure than the 25/06 to come within 100ish fps of the larger cartridge, would it not?

Moreover, per the Nosler capacity data, the WSSM has slightly less capacity than the Roberts. So, again, the WSSM must be loaded to higher pressures to exceed the 257.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, nor am I knocking the WSSM. It’s a handy little cartridge that seems to be basically a ballistic twin to the Bob, which is about perfect for my purposes.

Just trying to understand. Does anyone know the SAAMI pressure for the 25WSSM?

+1

southtexas,

Nosler's powder capacity numbers are a little difficult to translate directly into case capacity.

Here's what I do know. Several years ago I ended up with a pair of .224 caliber bolt actions chambered in a pair of cartridges with more powder room than the .220 Swift--the .223 WSSM Model 70 I've mentioned already on this thread, and a Remington 700 with a Brux barrel chambered for the .22/6mm Remington wildcat, also know as the .224 Texas Trophy Hunter.

I did considerable load development with both, and after using water to measure the case capacity, it turned out the two rounds have almost exactly the same case capacity, with the same bullets seated in fired brass. This of course implies that the .25 WSSM and .257 Roberts have almost exactly the same case capacity, since the 6mm Remington is basically the .257 necked down, though the 6mm has a slightly steeper shoulder angle.

However, the WSSM cases are VERY heavy compared to "standard" brass like the 6mm Remington, .257 Roberts, .25-06 etc. The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for the WSSMs is 65,000 PSI (the highest they allow for ANY cartridge), while the MAP for the .25-06 is 63,000, and the +P MAP for the .257 is 58,000 PSI.

So yeah, the .25 WSSM should be able to get a little more zip than the .257, if adhering to SAAMI MAPs. But it would also probably be capable of more velocity than the .257 even if somebody worked up loads according to traditional "pressure signs," due to the very thick brass.

Yes, the .25-06 has more powder capacity than the .25 WSSM, though not as much as the Nosler manual's numbers suggest. So no, the .25 WSSM is not a super-short .25-06.

I published the results of my experiments with the .223 WSSM and .224 TTH in Handloader, and also in a somewhat expanded version as a chapter in the first BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK, titled "A Pair of Fast .22 Centerfires." Both rifles shot very well (the .223 WSSM had a Lilja barrel, and the .224 TTH a Brux), and both got pretty much the same ballistics. And yes, there is published, pressure-tested .224 TTH data, as I recall from Hornady.

Heresy! Heresy! Prepare the stake! Pile [bleep]! (Not that kind, you idiots!)

Thanks, MD. Very helpful. I will go back and re-read the chapter in GG1.

And I can confirm that WSSM brass is very heavy. Almost takes a pair of pliers to correct runout!

Section one sometime, and look at the thickness of the base and walls!

I thought about getting one (they were cheap) and having it reamed to 8mm-06, but I wasn't shooting my .30-06 as much as the .300 Sav, so didn't need a new rifle not to shoot!

While not having any particular magic, I've had good luck with the 8X57. The Mauser From Hell project, once it got straightened out, has been an efficient venison machine. I've been using the 175 grain Speer RN's. I really cannot find a practical difference between this and my 30-06 shooting 165 grain Hornady.

222 Remington

I did buy one of the 700 Classics back when for the princely sum of $450 or so out the door. The 8x57 was the cartridge I used to take my first deer. There are always a few rifles so chambered around my place. None of them are the first rifle grabbed for deer season, they certainly wouldn't be the last,though.

.35 Remington, .32 Winchester special, .35 Whelen, 222 Remington, .41 Remington magnum.

I think for almost any purpose heavier than varmints, the 30-06 probably beats 90% of the cartridges introduced during the last 30 or 40 years.

I agree with Mule Deer. The only advantage to the Whizzems, Saums, etc. is the rifle might weigh 2 or 4 ounces less. Important for the hunter who is 30 or 40 pound overweight?

Underrated “not valued highly enough”. 270W…375 H&H…25-06

My three sons shot their first ten or so deer with a 250-3000, all one shot kills, 100 yards or less. If I were to do it again, I'd just build a 6mm Creedmoor, 100 gr bullets with 200 FPS velocity gain.

The more 6.5s I see, the more I like the 270 win.

I agree even having a 6.5 Swede — that I like.

It’s a very good cartridge in a modern rifle...
However it does NOT equal the 270 W using
130 or 150 gr. bullets.

IF my Swede was not in a 70 XTR FTWT I probably
would not have one.

Jerry