The -06 case was a distaster militarily, and useful but ultimately crippled as a hunting round.
For military use it was simply too big, with too big a bore diameter.
For hunting, it's too small a case diameter (high round counts in a magazine are not useful for non-DG rounds) with too much taper and too flat a shoulder. It was designed to maximize machine gun feeding, not be a good hunting round or reload well. That said, compared to what was domestically available when it was released it was an improvement and had a moment in the sun. As better rounds were imported and developed the -06 case fell further and further behind though.
Of course, there are always nuthuggers for nostalgia. We've got plenty here, and they're as pathetic as always
... the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen are superfluous while offering little if anything over it. ...
As a loving owner of both of those, I do get your point if you are talking about "compared to a 200 Partition in the 30-06", which I have several of too. Rex
I already said that the nostalgia nuthuggers would be in here, and right on time here they are
The fact is that the .30-06 cost twice as much, used twice as many precious raw materials, took up twice as much transport space, and weighed twice as much as it should have. Those are not of concern in a hunting round, where even counting sight-in it takes only a handful of rounds to kill and animal. But in a war where it took aproximately 10,000 rounds shipped to theater for every dead enemy, that's a major limitation.
There's a reason the STG-44, not the supposedly "great" Garand, was the pattern for infantry rifles going forward.
There's a reason everyone went to smaller cartridges after WWII, and it's not because the bigger cartridges were better
You're comparing a weapon that was developed over a century ago with what is available today. Bows and arrows were once effective militarily, but they would of course be a disaster today, Likewise, the Garand and the '06 would not be ideal today..
another 2 cents : yep the 30 - 06 is a great grand old cartridge as is the 308 but there is other families of cartridges 7 mm mauser another grand old cartridge that many cartridges were designed from or the 250 or 300 Savage that was another great old cartridge that is very close to the size and shape of a 6.5 Creedmoor . you can bet the famous guru of 24 Campfire if he chimes in he could really post some interesting history of caliber/cartridges as he has in his Gun Gack 3 - books with hopefully with a few more in the future with a wink .
Llama Bob must be unaware that during the early stages of the recent Afghan and Iraq wars, many USMC and USA combat troops were re-equipped with dusted off, modernized M-14 rifles in 7.62x51.
Due the long ranges encountered in the wide open plains of Afghnistan and Iraq, the 5.56x45 cartridge proved to be entirely inadequate.
And nostalgia has nothing to do with it. I haven't used a '06 for hunting since the early '60s. Not that it would not have done the job, but there are many other options that perform just as well. IMO the '06 has more juice than needed for bambi.
Llama Bob must be unaware that during the early stages of the recent Afghan and Iraq wars, many USMC and USA combat troops were re-equipped with dusted off, modernized M-14 rifles in 7.62x51.
Due the long ranges encountered in the wide open plains of Afghnistan and Iraq, the 5.56x45 cartridge proved to be entirely inadequate.
If you're looking for range, the .30-06 (or .308) is a disaster. Too big a bore, too small a case.
The reach of any .308 round in use today is barely longer than the 77gr SMK load
The -06 case was a distaster militarily, and useful but ultimately crippled as a hunting round.
For military use it was simply too big, with too big a bore diameter.
For hunting, it's too small a case diameter (high round counts in a magazine are not useful for non-DG rounds) with too much taper and too flat a shoulder. It was designed to maximize machine gun feeding, not be a good hunting round or reload well. That said, compared to what was domestically available when it was released it was an improvement and had a moment in the sun. As better rounds were imported and developed the -06 case fell further and further behind though.
Of course, there are always nuthuggers for nostalgia. We've got plenty here, and they're as pathetic as always
Yeah, it really sucked in WWI, WWII, Korea, and the limited use it saw in Vietnam. Your statement is one of the lamest I've heard around here in a while.
another 2 cents : yep the 30 - 06 is a great grand old cartridge as is the 308 but there is other families of cartridges 7 mm mauser another grand old cartridge that many cartridges were designed from or the 250 or 300 Savage that was another great old cartridge that is very close to the size and shape of a 6.5 Creedmoor . you can bet the famous guru of 24 Campfire if he chimes in he could really post some interesting history of caliber/cartridges as he has in his Gun Gack 3 - books with hopefully with a few more in the future with a wink .
Yeah, it really sucked in WWI, WWII, Korea, and the limited use it saw in Vietnam. Your statement is one of the lamest I've heard around here in a while.
If you just want to look at pre-WWI rounds we'd have been better off with the 6.5x55 in every one of those conflicts. The -06 was born obsolete as the -03 and remained obsolete at the -06. Being a little slow, it took us a while to realize it.
Or better yet 6mm Navy with a spire point bullet...
I like the 06, lot of performance, damn little recoil in my opinion. There is no truly perfect cartridge, guy’s been arguing this forever and will continue to do so.
In the many hunting camps I’ve been in, if you said you were hunting with the 06, heads would nod approving your choice.
The OP was discussing the use of the .30-06 for hunting, not its use by the military, which is an entirely different matter. As an all around cartridge for hunting, the 06 is pretty hard to beat. It's arguably the best single all around choice for North American big game as it will handle anything from antelope to the big bears without excessive recoil. And for plains game in Africa it's a great choice. There is no perfect cartridge for all situations, but the 06 is a very good compromise for most.
The OP was discussing the use of the .30-06 for hunting, not its use by the military, which is an entirely different matter. As an all around cartridge for hunting, the 06 is pretty hard to beat. It's arguably the best single all around choice for North American big game as it will handle anything from antelope to the big bears without excessive recoil. And for plains game in Africa it's a great choice. There is no perfect cartridge for all situations, but the 06 is a very good compromise for most.
If you're just talking about hunting, the WSM cass stomps the -06. More velocity, more efficient, short action instead of long action.
The -06 is nothing special. It was not special when it was created, and it's not special now. It's basically what a 'C-' in cartridge design looks like.
The OP was discussing the use of the .30-06 for hunting, not its use by the military, which is an entirely different matter. As an all around cartridge for hunting, the 06 is pretty hard to beat. It's arguably the best single all around choice for North American big game as it will handle anything from antelope to the big bears without excessive recoil. And for plains game in Africa it's a great choice. There is no perfect cartridge for all situations, but the 06 is a very good compromise for most.
If you're just talking about hunting, the WSM cass stomps the -06. More velocity, more efficient, short action instead of long action.
The -06 is nothing special. It was not special when it was created, and it's not special now. It's basically what a 'C-' in cartridge design looks like.
As the OP. if you read what I posted, it was not about the 30/06 cartridge, but the case itself. The whole point that keeps getting missed by some, is that as a sporting proposition, the 06 BRASS is one of the most useful sizes as to capacity, for a wide variety of factory and wildcat cartridges. You can neck it up and down and tailor cartridges that will out perform anything that can be done with the 308 or 7x57 case, especially above 8mm. You can neck the o6 casing up to 40cal and push a 400 grain bullet to match the velocity of the 450-400 3" and go elephant hunting and you sure can't do that with either the 308 or the 7x57 case size. This is not a discussion about the military aspects of any of them, but strictly from the sporting aspect. The case capacity of the U.S. 63mm (06) case, IMO is the most versatile of the non-belted cases for making cartridges that will efficiently handle any game in the world.
