Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Rusty Powder? IMR 4198

IMR 4198 - I just dumped some into the hopper for my powder measure and a rust colored cloud came from it. Powder is over 15yrs old. Didn't know gun powder rusted. Before I throw it out I thought I'd ask. What am I dealing with?

Thanks
Jim

Fertilizer

You are dealing with trouble. It is decomposing and I would dump it on my lawn to get rid of it if it was me.

Had the same thing come up in an old keg of 4831 and emailed Hodgdon about it. Got a response at 6:30 the next morning from a gentleman that had been working there for about 40 years. He told me to get the keg outside and fill it up with water ASAP! After having quite a long correspondence with him, I found out why he interrupted his morning cup of coffee (he usually perused his emails at the kitchen table first thing in the morning) to respond so quickly. Powder decomposing like that can spontaneously combust and burn a house down.

He told me some interesting stories about cases where it had happened over the years. Scary stories. My powder was in an old metal can that had maybe 20-25 lbs remaining and likely could have gotten quite exciting had it caught fire. I don't know what the probability of spontaneous combustion is, but I have enough powder that even a one lb can lighting up would be VERY bad. I have since found the same issue in a jug of AA3100 and had to dispose of it as well. I am cheap enough that the loss of that much powder stung like the devil, but I wouldn't have slept well had I not dumped them.

YES ^^^^^

I’ve had 2 cans of 1 lb powders have Red Dust.
Dump in yard or flower bed. No problems.

Jerry

Good friend of ours was finally getting rid of her late husband's stuff. Lots of it. Some reloading gear in a tool box. There was three metal cans of powder. One of them had rusted to a point where it was a pile of loose powder with the top and bottom and lots of rust mixed in. The other two cans were intact, but the insides had rusted quite a bit. I poured some of the powder out and it was full of rust from the cans. Used it to get a burn pile started.

Pulled some of the 223 loads that he had loaded long ago. He had used IMR4350 ??? The powder was all clumped up and greasy appearing. The only components I kept were the actual bullets. Powder, and primed cases got dumped. The bullets, 55 grain Hornady spitzers, were tarnished to hell, but they shoot great.

Yep. Red dust = bad powder. I'm guessing it smells off as well.

Same here on some old 4831 that I got from a friend. He and another friend actually had some (of the same batch) combust. Spread it in the yard IMMEDIATELY!

The red rust is definitely bad...as someone said, its fertilizer now.

But on the same topic Ive got an old can of 4198 that gives me just a little grey dust....which I cant think of as good...

Anybody with experience on the grey dust???

Same powder, 4198, that I had which produced the rusty colored dust. Correlation?

Im sure there is...I'm guessing the grey dust precedes the red rust...

Same here but your question still stands. Who else has made these observations and especially what's the significance? Ingwe, I did fertilize a small portion of the lawn with my rusty dusty.

IMR 4350.
Was gonna load some 300 Win for an elk hunting friend.
He came over, and when I opened his powder the smell was strange.
Poured it out to look, and it was a bit dusty.
He insisted on using it,, I refused.
He got an engineer buddy to investigate, and was also told to ditch it.
I finished his rounds, never again though.

I found the same thing yesterday with a can of IMR-4350. I was pouring some in a container and saw the dust rising up and continued to pour until the container was almost full, about 2/3rds pound. I put it back into the can and the container and funnel had an abundance of the gray residue. My thought was too much graphite but, I don't know for sure. It passed the sniff test.

Dusty to rusty to BUSTY?
My powder, if it gets dusty or rusty it also gets tossed.

Good powder has a little bit of an etherish smell. If it gives dust and smells like acid, it's gone funny and you should turn it into wet fertilizer right now. I sniff (carefully) every time I open any powder container.

Over 30 yrs ago had couple cans IMR-4831 develop red dust. Affected apparent burn rate - in this case loads chrono'd faster than book suggested. Was unsure so tossed it.

DO NOT DO THIS........but am using up the last of several 1# cans of IMR-4895 from about same time. It's had red dust for at least 30 years. The amount of red dust has not changed over time. Dust sticks to magnet. But it retains an ether smell.

Loaded some this week in .308 and velocity, apparent burn rate, ES, accuracy are exactly what they've been, and should be. No pressure or untoward signs.

How could we raise the rust/dust question with the powder manufacturer? Our observations bring us to our conclusions but what are the technical facts? What exactly is that dust and exactly how does it effect the powder performance if it does?

I recently threw away my fist partial can of powder.......some 4227 that I bought in the early ‘80’s. Dumping that powder initiated some very powerful emotions! 🤬 memtb

They know all about it.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

HOW TO CHECK SMOKELESS POWDER FOR DETERIORATION

Although modern smokeless powders contain stabilizers and are basically free from deterioration under proper storage conditions, safe practices require a recognition of the signs of deterioration and its possible effects.
Deteriorating smokeless powders produce an acidic odor and may produce a reddish brown fume. (Don’t confuse this with common solvent odors such as alcohol, ether and acetone.) Dispose of dete- riorating smokeless powders immediately.
Check to make certain that smokeless powder is not exposed to extreme heat as this may cause deterioration. Such exposure pro- duces an acidity which accelerates further reaction and has been known, because of heat generated by the reaction, to cause sponta- neous combustion.