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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908 |
Paul Bernard of course it was political I have been following Sweden throughout the pandemic, interested in seeing what result they get with their hands off approaches versus the lock down approach. Purely from medical curiosity and not from political interests. A few things need to be understood before diving into the data. Viruses are opportunistic organisms. They hunt hosts. Early on, hosts are plentiful and the transmission is easy. After you get to a certain point, hosts are harder to find, and the numbers drop. Next, to judge the effectiveness of Sweden, GB, or any other country it will need to be judged AFTER the pandemic ends and all the data is in. Looking at daily or weekly snapshots are not accurate. Historically, respiratory pandemics run 18 ± months from outbreak to peak transmission to the crash of number of new cases. There are still new cases after that for a time, but the logarithmic growth in new cases is done. Think of it like a pot of boiling water. A few bubbles transform into many until the pot boils over and it simmers down. Maybe another analogy is the atomic fission model with ping pong balls and mouse traps. While not exactly the same, it is a decent representation of how virus number grow, crest, and crash: 1:35 mark. So let's look at Sweden. It is a country of about 10 million people. It has a major population concentration around the capital. For comparison, the State of Georgia has about 10 million people, with a major population concentration around the capital. Let's look at the data now: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countriesSweden Total cases - 1,101,000 Deaths - 14,640 Active cases 10.641 Georgia Total Cases - 1,185,571 Deaths - 21,698 Active Cases - 74,752 Pretty similar results lockdown/masks vs. no lockdown and very casual mask usage and social distancing. I caution agaist making definitive conclusions because Georgia is not Sweden, but the obvious is the obvious. The virus did what viruses do with or without the harsh measures. For those interested, Click through the site and look at the graphs between US and Sweden and spread of the disease, how many months until the numbers peaked, and the current number of deaths and new cases. Sweden did experience a double wave before the numbers crashed. The US had the typical rise and fall, however we are seeing a rise in new cases popping back up. The more important graph is daily deaths. So far, daily deaths have not spiked up with the number of new cases. Once again, I caution against drawing conclusions just yet, but so far, the Delta varient has not been responsible to a huge spike in deaths. US C-19 deaths peaked about Jan-Feb 2021 and have crashed. We shall see if the Delta changes that. Interim Conclusions Nobody has criticized Sweden for a number of months now. Turns out their strategy got results similar enough to everybody else. Why is that? Once the virus was out of Wuhan, it was going to hunt hosts. Unless you lived on an island that could be locked down, the virus was going to get transmitted no matter what. The original shutdown strategy was to designed as a temporary measure to prevent hospitals and health care from being overwhelmed. Then it was politicized "to slow the spread" ax was ready. In the end, the virus was going to spread no matter what. The medical community has no way other than an effective vax or complete herd immunity to "stop" the spread. Note: nobody has ever said "stop" the spread, only "slow the spread". Politicians are the ones that are desparate for a solution that does not exist beyond the above. Swedes have more trust in their government because they believe their government wants what is best for all Swedes, and what gets them re-elected. Thus, the Swedish government was able to take this appraoch without an opposition Party blasting them at every turn. Note that the decision makers in Sweden got plenty of criticism during the peak months of transmission, but I'd say looking at things right now, their way was no worse than the lockdown/mask fiasco. statestatestatestatestate
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,441 |
Two point five months back ALL of Great Britain was gonna die from the DeltaRona.
Five months back ALL of India was gonna die from the DeltaRona
During the peak, India had over 4000 "DeltaRona" deaths per day. No. They counted 4k a day as delta deaths. You obviously know more about the inner workings of India than I do. Help me understand why they are reporting less than 500 per day recently. Ivermectin
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,908 |
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Hey, Paul.
Thanks for this morning’s entertainment, some good laughs at the dolts.
I gotta go to the deer lease and do some maintenance on my tractor.
Keep the peanut gallery entertained, it’s been a good run .
Later. The peanut gallery huh... that's nice. I know numerous people who's livelihood has been diminished or outright destroyed because we decided to quarantine the healthy, for the first time in history, as a response to a bs virus. Oh, and that virus clearly being used to advance the power of one political party. A political party most people on this site claim to detest and distrust yet believe wholesale what they say about this bullchit. Things that have never been said here before. Ever. Reinforcement is good as is repetition. Good stuff.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Old cooter tooter old buddy.... give it a rest the "covid" fear mongering ... is so yesterday... lol
Maybe you should move to a more wholesome environment? You have no idea of the amount of value that I place on your comments and your advice. Please know that.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Old cooter tooter old buddy.... give it a rest the "covid" fear mongering ... is so yesterday... lol
Maybe you should move to a more wholesome environment? You have no idea of the amount of value that I place on your comments and your advice. Please know that. Well thank you Old Toot. I have never been to the South but it is on my list for fishing and eating.... The stereotypes say the people are overweight, unhealthy and prone to criminal activity... again stereotypes.... Not all places are like that.
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Old cooter tooter old buddy.... give it a rest the "covid" fear mongering ... is so yesterday... lol
Maybe you should move to a more wholesome environment? You have no idea of the amount of value that I place on your comments and your advice. Please know that. Well thank you Old Toot. I have never been to the South but it is on my list for fishing and eating.... The stereotypes say the people are overweight, unhealthy and prone to criminal activity... again stereotypes.... Not all places are like that. Scratch it off your list.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,157
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,157 |
Another tidbit:
Hospitals in Louisiana get help from a federal strike force of a 33 member team of doctors and nurses .
Disaster Medical Assistance Team from the US Dept of Health and Human Services.
The Calvary has arrived. Crucifixions are next...
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,364
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,364 |
Old cooter tooter old buddy.... give it a rest the "covid" fear mongering ... is so yesterday... lol
Maybe you should move to a more wholesome environment? You have no idea of the amount of value that I place on your comments and your advice. Please know that. Well thank you Old Toot. I have never been to the South but it is on my list for fishing and eating.... The stereotypes say the people are overweight, unhealthy and prone to criminal activity... again stereotypes.... Not all places are like that. Scratch it off your list. Hahaha! Yowsa.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Another tidbit:
Hospitals in Louisiana get help from a federal strike force of a 33 member team of doctors and nurses .
Disaster Medical Assistance Team from the US Dept of Health and Human Services.
The Calvary has arrived. Crucifixions are next... Heh ! More like an exorcism being needed.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,526
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,526 |
From right across the state line on the MS Coast.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place....
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,526
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,526 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place.... That's a jewel of a thread.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place.... You may want to reread my comment on the felt value of your advice. But thanks.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
Paul Bernard of course it was political I have been following Sweden throughout the pandemic, interested in seeing what result they get with their hands off approaches versus the lock down approach. Purely from medical curiosity and not from political interests. A few things need to be understood before diving into the data. Viruses are opportunistic organisms. They hunt hosts. Early on, hosts are plentiful and the transmission is easy. After you get to a certain point, hosts are harder to find, and the numbers drop. Next, to judge the effectiveness of Sweden, GB, or any other country it will need to be judged AFTER the pandemic ends and all the data is in. Looking at daily or weekly snapshots are not accurate. Historically, respiratory pandemics run 18 ± months from outbreak to peak transmission to the crash of number of new cases. There are still new cases after that for a time, but the logarithmic growth in new cases is done. Think of it like a pot of boiling water. A few bubbles transform into many until the pot boils over and it simmers down. Maybe another analogy is the atomic fission model with ping pong balls and mouse traps. While not exactly the same, it is a decent representation of how virus number grow, crest, and crash: 1:35 mark. So let's look at Sweden. It is a country of about 10 million people. It has a major population concentration around the capital. For comparison, the State of Georgia has about 10 million people, with a major population concentration around the capital. Let's look at the data now: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countriesSweden Total cases - 1,101,000 Deaths - 14,640 Active cases 10.641 Georgia Total Cases - 1,185,571 Deaths - 21,698 Active Cases - 74,752 Pretty similar results lockdown/masks vs. no lockdown and very casual mask usage and social distancing. I caution agaist making definitive conclusions because Georgia is not Sweden, but the obvious is the obvious. The virus did what viruses do with or without the harsh measures. For those interested, Click through the site and look at the graphs between US and Sweden and spread of the disease, how many months until the numbers peaked, and the current number of deaths and new cases. Sweden did experience a double wave before the numbers crashed. The US had the typical rise and fall, however we are seeing a rise in new cases popping back up. The more important graph is daily deaths. So far, daily deaths have not spiked up with the number of new cases. Once again, I caution against drawing conclusions just yet, but so far, the Delta varient has not been responsible to a huge spike in deaths. US C-19 deaths peaked about Jan-Feb 2021 and have crashed. We shall see if the Delta changes that. Interim Conclusions Nobody has criticized Sweden for a number of months now. Turns out their strategy got results similar enough to everybody else. Why is that? Once the virus was out of Wuhan, it was going to hunt hosts. Unless you lived on an island that could be locked down, the virus was going to get transmitted no matter what. The original shutdown strategy was to designed as a temporary measure to prevent hospitals and health care from being overwhelmed. Then it was politicized "to slow the spread" ax was ready. In the end, the virus was going to spread no matter what. The medical community has no way other than an effective vax or complete herd immunity to "stop" the spread. Note: nobody has ever said "stop" the spread, only "slow the spread". Politicians are the ones that are desparate for a solution that does not exist beyond the above. Swedes have more trust in their government because they believe their government wants what is best for all Swedes, and what gets them re-elected. Thus, the Swedish government was able to take this appraoch without an opposition Party blasting them at every turn. Note that the decision makers in Sweden got plenty of criticism during the peak months of transmission, but I'd say looking at things right now, their way was no worse than the lockdown/mask fiasco. statestatestatestatestate Knowing stuff can be frustrating sometimes. Rest assured, some of us appreciate the effort.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place.... You may want to reread my comment on the felt value of your advice. But thanks. Oh.... well this is awkward.... I guess I tend to be more optimistic.... well good luck.... oh and GFY hahahahhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Paul Bernard of course it was political I have been following Sweden throughout the pandemic, interested in seeing what result they get with their hands off approaches versus the lock down approach. Purely from medical curiosity and not from political interests. A few things need to be understood before diving into the data. Viruses are opportunistic organisms. They hunt hosts. Early on, hosts are plentiful and the transmission is easy. After you get to a certain point, hosts are harder to find, and the numbers drop. Next, to judge the effectiveness of Sweden, GB, or any other country it will need to be judged AFTER the pandemic ends and all the data is in. Looking at daily or weekly snapshots are not accurate. Historically, respiratory pandemics run 18 ± months from outbreak to peak transmission to the crash of number of new cases. There are still new cases after that for a time, but the logarithmic growth in new cases is done. Think of it like a pot of boiling water. A few bubbles transform into many until the pot boils over and it simmers down. Maybe another analogy is the atomic fission model with ping pong balls and mouse traps. While not exactly the same, it is a decent representation of how virus number grow, crest, and crash: 1:35 mark. So let's look at Sweden. It is a country of about 10 million people. It has a major population concentration around the capital. For comparison, the State of Georgia has about 10 million people, with a major population concentration around the capital. Let's look at the data now: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countriesSweden Total cases - 1,101,000 Deaths - 14,640 Active cases 10.641 Georgia Total Cases - 1,185,571 Deaths - 21,698 Active Cases - 74,752 Pretty similar results lockdown/masks vs. no lockdown and very casual mask usage and social distancing. I caution agaist making definitive conclusions because Georgia is not Sweden, but the obvious is the obvious. The virus did what viruses do with or without the harsh measures. For those interested, Click through the site and look at the graphs between US and Sweden and spread of the disease, how many months until the numbers peaked, and the current number of deaths and new cases. Sweden did experience a double wave before the numbers crashed. The US had the typical rise and fall, however we are seeing a rise in new cases popping back up. The more important graph is daily deaths. So far, daily deaths have not spiked up with the number of new cases. Once again, I caution against drawing conclusions just yet, but so far, the Delta varient has not been responsible to a huge spike in deaths. US C-19 deaths peaked about Jan-Feb 2021 and have crashed. We shall see if the Delta changes that. Interim Conclusions Nobody has criticized Sweden for a number of months now. Turns out their strategy got results similar enough to everybody else. Why is that? Once the virus was out of Wuhan, it was going to hunt hosts. Unless you lived on an island that could be locked down, the virus was going to get transmitted no matter what. The original shutdown strategy was to designed as a temporary measure to prevent hospitals and health care from being overwhelmed. Then it was politicized "to slow the spread" ax was ready. In the end, the virus was going to spread no matter what. The medical community has no way other than an effective vax or complete herd immunity to "stop" the spread. Note: nobody has ever said "stop" the spread, only "slow the spread". Politicians are the ones that are desparate for a solution that does not exist beyond the above. Swedes have more trust in their government because they believe their government wants what is best for all Swedes, and what gets them re-elected. Thus, the Swedish government was able to take this appraoch without an opposition Party blasting them at every turn. Note that the decision makers in Sweden got plenty of criticism during the peak months of transmission, but I'd say looking at things right now, their way was no worse than the lockdown/mask fiasco. statestatestatestatestate Knowing stuff can be frustrating sometimes. Rest assured, some of us appreciate the effort. So many Medical Doctors, Virologist and full time Researchers here at The Campfire. Refreshing.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place.... You may want to reread my comment on the felt value of your advice. But thanks. Oh.... well this is awkward.... I guess I tend to be more optimistic.... well good luck.... oh and GFY hahahahhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah Thanks. It always comes out.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 902
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 902 |
From right across the state line on the MS Coast. Lol, what's the source? Nobody is this gullible, I hope.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Brother Toot, can I recommend the "pic's or it didn't happen" thread? you may find a happy place.... You may want to reread my comment on the felt value of your advice. But thanks. Oh.... well this is awkward.... I guess I tend to be more optimistic.... well good luck.... oh and GFY hahahahhahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah Thanks. It always comes out. You will not receive the benefit of a doubt ... ever again....
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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