Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors '69 Target with clip slot receiver advice

I just bought a Win model 70 target, with a factory clip slot receiver. If I'm doing my research correctly, it dates to 1969. 30/06 caliber

Brought it by my gunsmith, who's first reaction was "these are nice guns". It did not go well from there. Here are some of the things he noted:

Headpace, it closed on a nogo guage, but not a field guage
Crown was damaged..rifling was still good
Incorrect sight base at muzzle, and modified rear base
Aftermarket trigger, thinks it's a Canjar
Rear cap on the bolt ws installed incorrectly, safety was indistinct
multiple hairline cracks in the inlet area
Trigger guard and floorplate were sitting to deep, causing the floorplate to need to be foced shut(impinging on the stock)

Gunsmith setting the barrel back a turn, rechamber and recrown wasn't a problem.

The stock issues gave him pause though, seemed to think it wasn't worth the effort to start chasing all these issues.

I have a steel tube Weaver T10 I wanted to put on it, to have a sort of 70's era sniper rifle.

I could buy an HS Precision or McMillan stock, which would fix multiple problems, but then I'd loose the 'era correct" look/feel. Or I could wait it out and see if a factory target stock pops up for sale somewhere. Or just sell it, with full dsclosure and move on. I really wasn't looking for another project, and I would have to wait awhile before I could get around to having the work done.

What do you guys think?

I assume that returning it to the seller is not an option?

Sold as is/no returns....pays your money and takes your chances

Did the seller provide a description of the rifle? If the description said something like "good condition, no issues", I think you have a point to at least ask for refund. "As is" means it meets the described/discussed condition. Does the rifle's condition meet that criteria? If yes, it is yours. If not, you may have recourse.

If nothing else, it is a lesson to ask questions next time, such as:

Any cracks in the stock? Has it been bedded or modified?
Does the bolt, trigger, safety, metal work, extractor work as designed?
Any stripped screws/bolts?
Any modifications from original?
Bore / crown condition?
Any issues with it?

If a scope is included;
Do the windage/elevations work as designed?
Ring marks?
Does the zoom ring work as designed?
Any chips or cracks in the lens? Any rattling from internals?
Any issues with it?

If buying "sight unseen", get multiple pictures of stock, action, barrel, muzzle from top, side, bottom views. If you see something, ask for more pictures of that area.
Have picture of action with stock removed. Get picture of inletted area of stock ( action, barrel channe! , floorplate area-with floor plate removed).


Ask for, and get all conditions of the item in writing.
Ask for, and get in writing, if a full refund will be provided-if the item does not meet the written description.

If the seller is not willing to provide that info or terms, it is a HUGE indicator to move on and pass on the purchase.

Yep, buyer beware. Hope you can get your rifle into safe shooting condition. Sounds like it is possible.

Maybe you can find a used stock to replace the one you have. The rifle isn't massively collectable, so a new /used synthetic stock wouldn't bother me as an option. It may turn out to be a good shooter. You may want to take it for a test drive after having to barrel set back. Then decide what you want to to with it.

I also would not be against selling it, with full disclosure. It is just "stuff" so, do what you would like ( either way) and don't look back.

Good luck.

I would just work with what have. Original sights are available. A good stock refinisher can do wonders.

Buttstock makes a lot of good points. Theoretically, to agree. The great problem is finding the seller who is jumping through such hoops voluntarily as part of sale listing. Rare! Moreover, as potential buyer requesting such listing augmentation; yet pesky 'competition'... No such demands! These crazy days particularly as "Sellers market"! I do agree with the thorough investigation approach IF likely practical.

The sold "as is", can be attacked. But courts tending to look beyond words to status of parties. Termed "parity of parties" consideration. Where sophisticated sellers vs consumers, the consumer status may prevail. Where parties are "equally disposed", the 'common sense' application of term, most likely to prevail. Best seller attacked "collaterally" where such as truthful feedback may be applicable to seller's reputation, for instance. Otherwise, realistically, "distance", the same thing that kept you from proposing "swinging by his house or mutual physical meet location" for hands-on viewing, also blunting the arguments considerably in terms of "remedies".
I think the lesson here, in the good points buttstock offered, perhaps toned down in seller market. More solid facts or simply 'walk'.

Nothing short of 'hands on' or a trusted intermediary, to provide substitution with competency as photos. It amazes me how situations from 'none' to a few dark blurry images... And such guns listed still sell!
Sometimes, true to life, the best 'remedy' is the 'poison pill' learning experience offered. "Prickly" experience for sure!

In the meantime, "good corn whiskey and wild, wild women..." As consolation prize? Photos & Hands on... Discretionary!
Best & Stay Safe in these Covid times!
John

All good points, I've certainly been ..less then satisfied..with some GBer buys, and some in person buys, so....I've got a good smith here in the SLC area.

The seller had noted a repaired crack in the stock near the ejection port, I couldn't see it, with the gun in hand. The smith with his magnified head set, saw it, but wasn't concerned. The other stuff, I doubt I would see in a pic or in person. Again, he noted the hairline cracks in the inlet area under magnification. Headpace...well, you need the guages for that.

I had asked the seller about what I thought was corrosion but he said it was gunk that cleaned off, and, in hand I don't see any.

I paid 600 plus tax and shipping, so right at 700 total. I think for 600, I've got a good action and trigger, with salvaegable barrel...A poster on another site said he set his back twice and it's still shooting good...so..certainly a new match barrel and install will be way more then setting it back.

As noted...is it worth going thru the hassle of a dispute? I'm thinking not. Certainly if it said 30day inspection, or what not, it would be on it's way back.

For 600 bucks, I'm not out a lot, and I took the chance. If it was 1K+ I would've passed, or asked for a lot more pics, questions and return option.

The fact that Gunstock says it's not "massively" collectible is helpful. If I'm not sitting on a goldmine, I can do what ever to it. Again, it's a good action and trigger.
There is a HS stock on Ebay right now, and a B&C sporter....will kinda kill the old school vibe, but oh well. I'm taking it to smith today to have the T10, or maybe T6 mounted....at least it will look cool.

Good choice on the T10. I had one with a duplex. Decided to go T16 since it had a dot reticle. Great scope. Have you looked at Richards Microfit for a target stock? I have a M54 Target in 257 Roberts. Fantastic rifle. Those target stocks are just so perfect in balance and feel. I've thought about having one built but not sure what cartridge I'll use. I really want to build a 338-06 but then can't decide if I should build a hunting rifle or a target. Lol

You already may know this, but in case you don't...


If (when) you set the barrel back, make sure you set it back at least the length of the neck. You want to remove all remnants of the original chamber reamer- not because it was "bad", but because it is impossible to match the original dimensions (neck diameter). Setting back "a full neck length" cleans up the neck area.

Twenty+ years ago, I had Rem 722 actioned rifle with a Rem 40x 222 Rem barrel, that I bought for a ridiculously low price. It was going to be my prairie dog rifle, and I wanted it rechambered to 223 Rem. The gunsmith rechambered the barrel, and included a fired 223 Rem case from the new chamber. There was a visible step in neck. His 223 Rem reamer had a tighter neck diameter than the factory 222 Rem chamber. I told him it was unacceptable, and he needed to set the barrel back a couple of turns, and rechamber to remove all of the original neck. He did it, and it came out fine and shot great. I was very disappointed the gunsmith didn't set back the barrel enough on the original rechambering, figured "a gunsmith should know those type of things"-he evidently didn't. Lesson learned.

Make sure, in writing, to have the gunsmith set the barrel back to clean out the full original neck chambering. Also get the specs of his/her reamer for neck diameter and throat to make sure it meets your needs, and gets done once-correctly.

It's at Barlow custom right now. He had a vintage and correct Redfield base and the 4 screw rings..he also had the bottom screw rings..but we both didn't care for them, practically, they look cool though.

The initial plan was to mount the T6 scope...I need to send the T10 out for refurb. He was also gonna shim the bottom metal so it would close properly. Well, turned out the hinge plate was cracked. Couldn't find a blued one anywhere...until he did some digging in the shop, and found one. The bolt stop spring was also modified for the aftermarket trigger. he now thinks its a Canjar, so he is going to install a new one, with a difernet mod, so the bolt will stay in the gun.

He explained how he would set the barrel back, ensuring the marking lined up correctly, etc. Then he would use a pull reamer...with the bolt installed, he would pull the reamer until the bolt closed....or at least thats the way I understood it...I could be way off though.

Haven't decided if I want to go forward with the project though. Thinking if I do, I might go with a HS Precision stock, or...a McMillan M40a1 style in forest camo, which would smewhat mimic the rifle the USMC rifle shop built for Gunny Hathcock. A push feed 70, douglas barrel, McMillan stock and Redfield scope...

I don't see that method working well with enough setback to clean out the whole length of the original neck. However I make no claims about being a machinist/gunsmith.