Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Savage ML-II, who still uses one?

I purchased a Savage ML-II from a LGS several years ago. Chrome-moly with a camo stock. I never got around to using it. Then all the reports of failures came out and I put it in the back of my safe and never got around to using it again.

Now have access to a large parcel of private land for deer hunting but owner only allows archery, shot-gun and muzzle loaders. My interest in using a MZ has perked up a little. I've reviewed the manual that came with the MZ, the Savage web site and the net.

What is the general consensus - safe or not not safe to use? There is so much info on the net and bounces between the extremes -- best ever MZ to ticking time bomb!

I have 10 oz of Blackhorn, 1 lb of 5744, plenty of Accurate 2015. Also have some Barnes 240's, MMP black sabot's and 100 primers.

Please, share your experiences with the ML-II and any recommendations. All the bad press can make a person uneasy about trying one out!

Thanks for your help!

I have a couple (MLI & II) and don't have any reservations about using them, but then I don't hot rod them. I use moderate charges of 5744 and haven't had an issue.

Use the BH-209 or other black powder subs and you'll be fine. Way lower pressure than that of the smokeless variety.

Or you can sell it here for the $1000 they usually bring, buy a $300 traditions and go hunting.

Todd

I had a stainless, used 5744, super accurate with Barnes bullets. They have blown up because of double charging. Make sure you have a witness mark on rod so you know it’s not double charged with powder or two bullets. Be careful, double check, weigh each charge of powder. There is a guy in classifieds that sells vials for weighed charges. I kinda wish I’d kept mine but wasn’t using it. I had a Leupold muzzleloader scope on it.

i had a stainless camo that never ended up getting shot sold this spring 1500 but me and a friend shoot his blued a decent amount he shot several deer with i have no fear of shooting with smokeless powder i believe we use vihtavuori N110 very accurate

I have one in stainless with laminate stock. I still use it. 44 gr of 5744 with a 250 or 300 gr XTP or SST. I don't deviate from book loads.

I have a blued/laminate Savage 10ML-II that I used in Colorado but per their regulations I fed it conicals and 777 and BH209.

I'm sure it'd be fine with sabots but I never saw the need to go smokeless.

I might have to test it out on the local whitetail...

I have a stainless synthetic. Used 5744 and saboted bullets. Weighed every charge and put them in clear vials. No issues. Good gun,haven't used it in a few years. Really a safe queen now. Our muzzle loading season is so short that it is not worth the effort.

But I think it's one of the best muzzleloaders ever made.

Thanks for all the input...seems like a "trust but verify" deal. The MZL should be fine if I pay attention to the details.

They're bull stout and work well with specified smokless or BP loads. And they're accurate, probably one of the best production ML's out there, IMO.

With our local primitive season, I use a ctg. gun, am not using my SS, laminated ML-II.

I have a bunch of bullets, accessories, rings, etc.

Send me a PM if interested and I'll put together an inventory of stuff, make someone a good package deal.

DF

i hunted with a group of 6 guys who used them for years because the landowner would not let us use high power rifles...never had an issue and probably shot 150 deer with them

Which book loads because they changed over the years. N110 for example is no longer listed for use with a 300gr bullet. Now N120 and LT-32 are listed. Neither of which will be in any manual that came with a rifle. 4227 as another example was listed in early manuals but its a very temperamental powder to use. Many people had fail to fire issues with it so Savage dropped it.
https://randywakeman.com/SAVAGE10MLNEWLOADDATA2018.htm

I can tell you right off the bat the NEW book load data even has some errors. N120 is a "hotter" powder than Reloder7. You can easily and safely use 63-65gr of Reloder7 with a 300gr bullet but its a bad choice for a 250gr bullet. You dont see N120 listed for a 250gr.

I’ve had mine 15 years with absolutely no issues .

The Randy Wakeman link that was provided is the go - to authority on the ML-II . Nobody has done more to promote , indorse and encourage Savage smokeless muzzle loading than Randy , well besides Henry Ball and Ron Coburn .

Smokeless : it’s everywhere you want to be .

5744 is the best all around powder in the ML-II for 250 – 300 grainers and is probably the most accurate in my experience …. 3 shot clover leafs @ 100 ( benched ) .

VV N110 for 240 / 250 grainers with increased velocity over 5744 .

VV N120 for the 300 grainers with increased velocity over 5744 .

Also , MMP sabots is the best I've used .

I personally believe all those stories of kabooms were due to loading errors … Not everyone should be reloading .

Also , strictly adhere to primer specifications …. If the data states a Winchester 209 , use it .

If the data states Federal 209 , use it .

I never saw the need to hot-rod the Savage ML-2 …. If I need more horsepower , I’ll use my 458 Win Mag . ... 300 grainers @ 2,000 fps is plenty enough .

Book loads meaning the load data mentioned in my manual when I purchased it and more specifically the load I mentioned above. I've always stuck with 5744. It does everything I need to in a muzzleloader. 5744 isn't picky, easy to find and and fires every time.

I also use 5744 in my 458 Win Mag and my 500 Smith & Wesson revolver ...

Great powder .

I have shot 3 deer with mine using N110. Very accurate and a great deer killer. This rifle got a bad reputation because people were misusing it.

I have been killing deer every year with mine for the last 15 years or so... never the first problem... they are very safe if you follow approved loads... Yes there have been some blow up from people shooting duplex loads (more than 1 type of powder) and trying to hotrod them... do not be stupid and you will not have a problem.

1 day I will own an ML-II. SWJ, enjoy it!

I use N110 with a 240-300g bullet, shot 2 deer in a river bottom 267 steps, not sure I can do that now lol

I'm still liking mine.

AA-5744, MMP orange or black crush rib sabot, and a 300 grain .458 bullet...

Run 44 grains 5744 under a 290 grain tipped barnes. Replace the the barnes sabot with a mmp mag black sabot. Ragged hole groups wicked deer performance. As long as you don't get stupid and hotrod the savage it is perfectly safe and effective.

I came here to post a thread asking about this, but then saw this one. I'm also looking for opinions on these. I've always liked the idea of smokeless powder in a muzzleloader and have the opportunity to pick one of these up for a friend for what seems like a reasonable price. On the low end of what they go for on Gunbroker. Although still 2x what it cost before they stopped producing them. I love muzzleloader hunting as the season is the prime time of year to be in the woods. It often coincides with the rut. However, I absolutely dread shooting my current muzzleloader. I'm currently shooting a T/C Triumph with BH209. Even with BH209, it seems to want to rust very quickly after shooting it. For example, I shot it yesterday and it took me 4 hours to get it clean. I know I'll go through this again if I shoot it next week as well. It's a nightmare to keep rust free, seems to rust anyway and also has some pitting where I let a friend borrow it and he didn't clean it for a few days, etc. This is where smokeless powder seems like a huge benefit. I can shoot it for the season and then just clean it once at the end of the season without worrying about rust. It just seemed like a perfect choice and I was pretty set on it.

Then I started reading reports of these guns blowing up and people getting hurt. It seems like a lot of people chalk it up to them being idiots and double charging it, etc. although there is never any proof of this. There seem to be many different reports of this happening across the internet. It scares me enough that I'm wondering if I'd ever really trust shooting it if I did get it. I had a Beretta 92F years ago, and I could never get over all of the reports online of the slide blowing off of the back. I ended up selling it as I just never wanted to shoot it due to that.

So I'm wondering what your experience with these is? Is it worth it? Is it worth taking the plunge? Or is it not enough of an improvement over a traditional muzzleloader that it's worth taking the risk?

I really like my stainless 10MLII. I purchased it years ago and have more confidence in the shot with it than with my previous muzzleloader. I don't hotrod and try crazy loads. I stick to book loads. A 300 gr SST using 44 gr AA45744 yields me 2,080 fps. There's no smoke when you shoot which is an added bonus as you can see the game. I don't worry about cleaning it during the season (2 weeks).

Lastly, it does require more attention to detail when loading one. Weigh your charges just like any other handloading. I use medical vials to store my pre-weighed charges in. Make sure the bullet is firmly seated on the charge and you shouldn't have any issues.

No one is going to readily admit they did something stupid. In a lot of cases they felt they did nothing wrong because the info was found online. There was a lot of questionable load info online. Lot's of advocates of duplex or even triplex loads. Just because someone put it in writing don't means it is safe.

I also preweigh all my charges and store in tubes. Mark your ram rod so you know for certain you have the bullet properly seated. I have put around a 100 rounds down the barrels of two different 10mls. Few variations of bullets. Charge has always been 44 grains of 5744. Have had zero issues and not once have I ever questioned the safety of the gun. No erratic recoil or accuracy no blown primers. No stuck breech plugs or vent liners no damaged threads.

Look at it this way regarding no proof of people double charging their rifle. Of all the people you know well and feel comfortable enough to hunt with, how many of them produce reloaded ammo that you would shoot yourself on a regular basis. Now think of all the people that there is no way you’d ever go hunting with because they are too loose with their safety practices.

A small subset of all of the above groups have purchased a Savage Smokeless muzzleloader. A very small fraction of these have had one blowup and claim the fault was with the gun. Now in each case of a blowup, think about whether it is more likely Savage produced a faulty gun or the shooter followed the proper loading technique 100% accurately.

And every load in a muzzleloader is a hand load. Mostly done by folks that don’t hand load any other time. Double charging cartridge loads is fairly easy to detect. Muzzle loaders not so much. I wonder too how many actually have a marked ramrod and check the charge.

In the campfire section slumlord has a picture of a pretty awesome but taken just a day the rifle would appear to be the Savage muzzleloader.

I do and I love it.

250 grn hornady xtp
MMP (low pressure) [although most will advise high press sabot]
55 grns VvN-120
Remington sts 209

Not varied the load ever and won’t.

I would recommend a sims pad if youre on thinners

No problems since 2010, they a proof tested for about 3 x what an idiot will charge them with. If you can blow one up then you have no business being near any muzzleloader.

Made in USA baby !!!













And it works good on little ones too. And does and yotes 👍

Why would you want to shoot a pressure starved load of N120 with a 250gr bullet when you can get the same speed with far less N110 that is not pressure starved?

N120 has NEVER been recommended with anything less than a 275gr bullet in the MLII and for good reason. Its very temp sensitive with lighter bullets.

Because it’s accurate in my barrel and kills the fouck out of deer

I’ve had one for a few years now, stainless with laminated thumb hole stock , never had an issue , shoots amazing groups .

Pics or it didnt happen.......er wait a minute LOL

Guy I worked w loved his Sav MZ.
Shot one load in it and said it was the best thing he ever tried ( for these parts- being at that time a shotgun, Mz and handgun state ).

I suspect his hunting pard got it when he passed.

With the allowance of PCR and even HP rifle now, I wonder how many of those rigs are in the backs of safes and havent seen daylight for years.

My season has sucked so far and I dread having to go late w MZ in the cold to fill my buck tag.
Dont run a smokeless MZ.

They are cool and I have zero probs or worries about them.

Juat got too old and cranky to mess w em.

Our MZ season is later and we are a 1 buck state.

No different than any other loading/reloading...

Well i guess if you are happy with velocity swings measured in 100s of fps when temps change.....More power to you. Ive seen N120 loose nearly 400fps over a 30F change when shooting 250gr bullets but some people prefer to ignore facts and repeatable pressure traces. Your 55gr load is already on the low end with a 300gr bullet but it will work with a minimal fps loss when the temps drop.

56-60gr with a 300gr has been a solid recommended load for ages. Even Savage recommends it with a 300gr bullet ONLY. 40gr of N110 will give you roughly the same speed or more with a far better temp stability when shooting a 250gr.

It's a damn fine rifle and it was a sad day when Savage quit making them.

I run 36-40gr of n110 under various 300 grainers. Muy accurate.

Can someone tell me if the laminate thumb hole stocks I have seen mostly on S.S. guns were produced and sold by Savage .

I believe Boyd's made them for Savage and most other manufacturers .

Used them for years safely and yes they got a bad rap because of double loads.

Moved on to custom smokeless guns but the old Savage is still a good deer killer.

By the way I have a friend that has a spare SS MLII in a Richards microfit stock pretty tricked out for 1100.00

Been using one for 20yrs now, never had an issue with them. I use 300gr bullets, mostly SSTs and they really hammer the deer! I’ve used a lot of N120, but more recently Re7 and H4198 to get around 2200fps with the 300s. Randy Wakeman’s site has tons of great info on their care and feeding.

I had one a it shot great. Just Like my simple break action cva better

I used one for about 15 years. Killed my share of whitetail deer and hogs with it. Never had any problems with the gun. always weighed every load, witness mark is important. Mine shot 250gr SST's/black MMP sabot over 52grs of IMR SR 4759 real well with Impressive results on deer.

Slummy you shoot the Savage! I take back all the bad things I said about you.

It is quite a sight to see a 3 inch entrance wound on a lung shot on a deer.

WTB A Savage ML II in stainless steel , laminated thumbhole stock . Let me know if you have one or know the where abouts of one . Thanks

Im way late to this thread, but I bought my 10MLII in 2001 I think. First one anybody around here had ever seen. I got my loads straight from Mr. Ball himself. Start at 42 gr xmp 5744, 250gr xtp, MMP balck sabot. work up until the petals on the sabot are 90 degrees to the base. For me, I topped out at 47 grs before losing petals. It puts holes in holes at 100 yards. EVERYBODY that's ever used mine has ended up buying one!

I’ve had one for a few years , it would be the last rifle I’d sell .

I've had a few, still have 2. Load 4759 and 300 grain SSTs in both. Both stainless laminates, non thumbhole but had one of those too. Found it clumsy to carry in the hands so sold it.

I wanted to try the Savage ML-II, and I bought a used one that had a .45 McGowen stainless barrel on it. Bought it here in the classifieds, and when I got it, found the barrel had a bulge in it about 5 inches from the breech. Supposedly had only been fired 32 times. Sent the rifle back and I'm hoping the seller is honest and refunds my money. I don't know what happened there but probably a double charge or maybe just too much or the wrong powder. That McGowen barrel is quite beefy so it had to have taken tremendous pressure to bulge it as much as it was.

Same load I use out of my ML 1. Hate they stopped making 4759 but i have a good supply.....

I wish I’d kept mine