Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics SWFA gets a bad review

Knew there was a reason I always preferred Bear Basin and D&R.



http://www.huntamerica.com/wwwthrea...&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I can state without reservation that Chris has always been more than fair to me and in all matters. Would also state I've bought from both the others you mention and have never been wronged and think very highly of Bear Basin especially.

Now as far as someone being foolish enough to purchase a "high end" Tasco.......Wellll,I ain't gonna touch that one and would state simply,that there is two sides to every story.

SWFA will continue to get my money and without a moments hesitation.............................

I read the thread, and while I'm not defending SWFA, who I rarely do business with because, both of us being in Texas, they are required to collect sales tax on sales to me, the situation with Tasco is well known and it would be interesting to know exactly what was said when he ordered the scope. There are usually at least 2 versions of the same event and often, the actual event supplies a third.

I have never had a problem with SWFA with any thing I have ordered. There must be more to this story than what was posted. Of course I would never buy a trashco anyway. High end Trashco now there is a concept lol. tom

My bussiness dealings with SWFA have always been very satisfactory. I do not like their attitude towards Rick and this site however.
One thing I do recall is Chris's policy about the cheap Tascos. You buy them, they aren't being taken back. I've seen this comment, by Chris, sometime ago, posted over at Shooter.com. He told a potential Tasco buyer this right up front on the site before the purchase was made. He even told him that the model in question model was a POS and that's why he doesn't stand behind them.
The person with the problem apparently can't get Tasco to fix it. Next, because Chris won't take it back, he is going to ask Tasco to take the scope back. What he really wants is to get Chris to take the Tasco back and apply full purchase price to a Leupold from Chris.
How many times have we seen this ? Some people won't listen to others with more experience. They won't ask important questions and don't believe what they don't want to hear. They seek an accomplice, not advice.
I haven't always agreed with Chris as some here may recall. But I've watched him do lots bussiness with many here, and over at Shooters.com for several years now. I have never seen him do less than be very decent to all who have done bussiness with him on the retail level. E

I'm thinkin' it is about the most grand oxymoron I can come up with,off the top of my head.

"High End Tasco",is a Good 'Un!.....................

The simple fact that the guy bought a Tasco implies that he has no aversion to getting screwed. You can hardly place the blame on SWFA for that.

I've only bought one scope from Chris and can't say I was overly impressed. No returned phone calls, looooooooooooooooooooong hold times and a scope that was supposed to be in an unopened box that came in an opened box. The scope was fine though and the price was decent, so I'd go back there if I had to, but will likely go to Rick or Bear Basin before I test my patience with Chris again.

All that said, I don't think this dude's problem is SWFA's problem. One of the nice things about dealing with Cabelas is their return policies, but that doesn't mean that every other company has to do the same. My problems with SWFA (and Chris' pissy exit from this site) would have me "try" elsewhere before going to SWFA, but if need be, I wouldn't have any qualms about using them again.

.... High end Tasco -- that's good!!!

Gentlemen:

1] I bought one scope from Chris. I got a good price and am happy.

2] Our separation of ways was business-to-business related. It had nothing to do with SWFA's interface with customers. I wish it would have gone differently between us, but I'm comfortable with the way I handled things and can't see where I would have done anything differently.

3] 24hourcampfire.com is an authorized Leupold dealer. As those who have bought glass from us will attest, we will beat anyone's pricing on Leupold, as long as they're a legit outfit. Just email me.

4] I won't sell Tasco. I'm glad they're OOB.

Rick

I have never bought a scope from SWFA, but I wonder if they announced their position on not taking a Tasco back? If they have an aversion to taking Tasco back, I just wonder if they told the gentleman that ordered the scope that they would not take it back if he was not happy.

It would be very interesting to hear the other side of the story on this one.

CAS, now that was funny! ROTFLMAO

I feel I must add something here. Several years ago when Swarovski introduced their new A Line scopes I was in the market for one. I saw an offer from SWFA for $599 and promptly ordered one, as that was the cheapest I had seen them.

When I received the scope it turned out that I did not fully read the offer and it was in fact for the older model scope that they had discounted because of the new introduction. When I called SWFA to see about exchanging it for the new model they promptly issued a UPS call tag and shipped me out a new model scope. Of course I paid the price difference.

That was my only dealing with them on any kind of return, but I thought their service was excellent.

May 19 & again on May 20, 2003 was the first time I spoke with Mr. Ryan, and became aware of his situation.

May 19:
Mr. Ryan told me we sold him a defective scope, and when he called to tell us about it he spoke with Chris, and he says that Chris told him �Too bad Buddy, you bought it, it�s yours. You�ll have to send it to the factory to get it repaired.� I ask him if he was sure that Chris talked to him in that manner, because I have never known of Chris talking to a customer that way. He told me that maybe those weren�t the exact words, but the answer was the same. Mr. Ryan said the first thing we �did� to him was when he called us about the Tasco Super Sniper scopes. We explained to him that they were on back order at that time. He says that he then ask us about the Tasco Custom Shop 8-40x56 with the mil-dot reticle, and he asked us if the quality of the Custom Shop was the same as the Super Sniper, and he says we told him that it was exactly the same. I explained to Mr. Ryan that I didn�t see how that was possible, because everyone here knows that the quality is not the same. We have a world wide exclusive on the Super Sniper scopes. Why would we say the quality is the same? We wouldn�t. I explained to Mr. Ryan that I knew that other companies had been advertising that these two scopes were the same trying to take advantage of the Super Sniper's success, but we were not one of them. In fact, we even insisted that Tasco have their attorneys issue a cease, and desist order to everyone that was making that statement, whether in print, or on the telephone. That, along with the fact that this purchase was not in our data base anywhere, and Chris would not talk to a customer the way Mr. Ryan says Chris spoke to him, is why I feel that Mr. Ryan made this purchase elsewhere. He told me that he had Lou Gehrig�s Disease, he had retired early, and the defective scope had prevented him from enjoying the sport of shooting.
Mr. Ryan told me he has been a customer of ours for four years, and this is the first time he has had a problem. I looked for him in our current data base, which goes back to September of last year, and there was no record of him making any purchases from us. I then looked for him in our last data base that goes back to 2001. I did find two orders from him there. One in May of 2001, and one in November of 2001, neither for a Custom Shop Tasco. Nothing since then, and all records before January 2001 have been destroyed. When I told Mr. Ryan this, he said he didn�t understand that because he has bought from us for six years (a two year increase from the first time he said how long he had bought from us), and he knows that he�s purchased from us since November 2001. I thanked him for his business, and asked him for the reference number of the order where he purchased the Tasco scope from us. He couldn�t provide one. He told me he doesn�t keep records. He mentioned again that he has Lou Gehrig�s Disease, and that he has never been very good at keeping records for small purchases. I explained how I couldn�t help him if he couldn�t prove that this purchase came from us, because we are not the only ones that sell the item he purchased. He told me that it had to be from us, because he only buys from us, and that he has bought from us exclusively for the last seven years (another year increase). I told him how much I appreciate that, but again tried to explain how I couldn�t help him if he couldn�t prove that he purchased this scope from us. He assured me that he understood my position, and that he would look real hard for the receipt, and call me back the next day. He thanked me for my help, and my time, and I told him how sorry I was that I couldn�t help him that day.

May 20:
Mr. Ryan told me he had found the receipt. He gave me a reference number that went back to November of 2000, and, needless to say, was not for the Tasco item he was calling about. I explained to him that I had to have the reference number that belonged to the purchase of the Tasco scope, not a reference number that just proved he had purchased from us in the past. He said that he understood, but that he was just frustrated because he had a defective scope that we were refusing to do anything about. I explained to him that at no time in our conversations have I ever said that I would not do anything about the defective scope. I again tried to explain to Mr. Ryan that before I would know if I could help him or not, he would first have to provide me with some sort of verification that proved that he had purchased the scope from us. I suggested to Mr. Ryan that he look through his credit card statements for the charge posted from us, and also through his check book register for a cancelled check with our endorsement on the back. I told him if he could provide me with any proof that he had purchased the Tasco scope from us, that would give me a date to look for a hard copy of his order. Anything. I told Mr. Ryan I couldn�t understand how he would not be in our data base, if he had made this purchase from us. He said he couldn�t either, but it must be a problem with our computer system, because he has bought from us for the past ten years, but he says this time he wanted to buy a Leupold, and we talked him into buying a Tasco, and now we won�t take it back (another three year increase, and his story changed from yesterday). I told him I would spend whatever time it took to find his order, but he had to give me somewhere to start.
Mr. Ryan told me he had sent the scope in for repair two times, and one of the problems was still not fixed. I asked him what was wrong with the scope, and he told me there was four, or five things defective with the scope. I asked him to tell me what they were. He told me the defects were:
1) The target knobs were mushy.
2) The tracking was off.
3) The 3 inch eye relief wasn�t what he expected.
4) The optical quality was not good.
Half of Mr. Ryan�s perceived factory defects were not defects at all, but rather disappointments. However, Mr. Ryan did say that the repair department had told him that the one target knob could not be fixed.

Through both days conversations Mr. Ryan continued to try to get me to take this scope in exchange for a Leupold. I repeatedly explained to him that he would have to prove that he purchased the scope from us since the purchase was not in our data base anywhere. Towards the end of our conversation on the 20th, Mr. Ryan repeatedly asked me what would I be willing to do for him if he could prove the purchase was from us. I repeated myself again, and tried to explain to Mr. Ryan that the answer to his question was not that simple. Without having the hard copy of his order, and the chance to view any notes recorded on his order regarding the purchase, and the date he called about the scope being defective, there was no way I could tell him what I could do for him. He continued to try, and pressure me into giving him an answer, and he was becoming more, and more abusive in his tone, and with his language. Finally, he asked me if he had not followed our return policy, and because he had Lou Gehrig�s Disease, did not call us timely to tell us that the scope was defective, to tell him what I would be willing to do for him. I repeated myself again, and told him it would depend on how long he had the scope before he called us. He said to just assume that it was a while. I told him in that case, I would have to tell him that the warranty must be between him, and the manufacturer. He told me he could see from where Chris had gotten his comments. That Chris wasn�t willing to help him either. He then ask me if I was licensed to do business in the state of California, and I told him I was not. He said he had talked with the Attorney General of the State of California, and was told he could not do anything if we were not licensed there. I told him that Texas had an Attorney General also, and he could talk to them about this situation. He told me he was a member of several organizations, and if I didn�t agree to take this scope in exchange for a Leupold, he just thought he would go to some of the on-line talk groups, and tell everyone that we had done a �bait and switch� on him. I agreed that was Mr. Ryan�s prerogative, and I told him all we asked was for him to be honest in everything that he said, and I told him the statement about us doing a �bait and switch� was a bold face lie. I mentioned to Mr. Ryan that his story continues to change, and he asked me how. I told him he keeps changing the length of time he has bought from us, and about the scope he was wanting to purchase being a Super Sniper one day, and a Leupold the next. He denied changing his story. I told him when someone�s story continues to change that it doesn�t leave a lot of credibility to their story. I explained to him that we have been in business for about 28 years, and we couldn�t have the reputation that we have if we treated our customers the way he�s suggesting we treated him. We make very good notes regarding all customer�s orders, and return requests. We do this just for situations like this. We all talk to a lot of people every day, and it is imperative that good notes are made regarding customer�s orders, and any time they call regarding that order. Without good notes, we wouldn�t have any way of knowing all of the circumstances concerning the order. I reminded Mr. Ryan again that if he could only find some proof that he purchased this scope from us, we still might be able to help him. The last thing I heard him say, before I hung up on him was �This is bull [bleep]�.
I am asking Mr. Ryan to provide me with proof that he purchased this scope from us, and his idea of cooperating with me is to continue to raise his voice to me, curse, and threaten to go on the internet, and �ruin� our reputation?
I disagree with the comments Mr. Ryan has made on several talk groups when he has said, �This is getting to be fun!�, �Let�s watch the fun if this takes off.�, and �This is fun!�. I not only don�t see anything �fun� about this, but I think it�s very childish, and irresponsible of Mr. Ryan when he hasn�t even attempted to prove that he purchased this scope from us.

Norma Farris
RifleScopes.com

Norma,

I figured there was much more to the story than was related on the HA link,but I never dreamed he was a Nut Job!

Kudos to you, for your patience and being up front in his feeble attempt to muddy the waters. I simply couldn't do it(not fly off the handle),nor even close(grin).

Anyhow,I corresponded with Chris earlier today,so as to thank him and your establishment for their great pricing and yearning to make everything smooth in all matters.

Folks that don't reside in a very outlying area,likely have zero feel for the importance of being treated right via mail order and you folks(Chris especially) have always treated me and my pards in what I'd deem an exceptional manner. With our long delays on parcels,due to weather,coupled with ridiculous freight costs,getting it right the first time is paramount and you have hit the nail on the head with 100% consistency. I for one am more than grateful,as I've experienced the flipside of that coin from others and "frustrating" don't come close to describing the scenario.

You folks are a top notch outfit and it has always been a pleasure trading with you.........................

I've also bought several high-end scopes from SWFA over the past several years with complete satisfaction with respect to price and service and of course the quality of the Swarovski and Kahles doesn't hurt either.

I can appreciate 'Stick's remarks about living out in the boonies as it seems that's what California has become when you try to drive somewhere and buy shooting and/or hunting related equipment plus when you do find something the clerk frequently leaves something to be desired with respect to knowledge.

A final comment about Tasco scopes....I recently took the plunge and bought one of their discontinued Titan models off the internet.....after about 100 rounds thru my 9.53 Hellcat don't see a problem....yet.

Aha, the second side of the story heard from. As I suspected, there are seriously differing details. Now, if Mr. Ryan can't come up with purchase proof, forthwith, I know who I believe and his name ain't Peter, although he might be some related term. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

FWIW, I have bought 5 scopes (do they sell anything but Leupold) and Swarovski spotting scope and have been very happy with the service. No idea about their service department, as I have never needed it. Wish we had more companies like them. JMHO TM

I bought a Leica 8x32 from SWFA that came off the Samplelist and it was exactly as advertised.
The next year I emailed Chris about a Crooked Horn Harness that had the Leica trademark that I had seen at the SHOT Show. He replied to just shoot him an address and he would send me one. Two days later there's one in my mailbox, no charge.
Try that with the big camera stores that you can barely understand what they are saying!
I since bought a Zeiss Conquest and have been very happy with it.

I bought a set of Leica 10x50s and a set of Kahles 8x52s from the Samplelist a couple years ago. Last year, I bought a Leica Televid 77mm spotter. Since I currently reside in Texas, I do have to pay tax. However, Chris' customer service has been outstanding. He has gone to a great deal of effort to help me, and I appreicate that.

Blaine

i've known chris and done business with him for many years, and i know for a fact that he'll try his best to make every customer happy. SWFA was the first company to sell optics at reasonable prices before others joined the wagon. where were the other companies when SWFA made superior products affordable to consumers like me? where were the others when CHRIS was answering questions and helping shooters on web sites like this?
my dad(god bless his soul) always told me that their are two sides to a story and always believe the side of the story that is coming from somebody that done you right before.. from what i read in CHRIS'S reply, it seems that he tried his best to make it right. but sometimes you cann't make everybody happy.
CHRIS, go shoot that 500 lbs hog this weekend and i really enjoyed your company tonight

sambo the mambo