Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting New elk rifle caliber choice?

If you were gonna build an elk rifle on a Husky small ring commercial Mauser, would you go with a .308 Norma Mag. or .358 Norma Mag.? Those are your only two choices. Might double as a grizzly rifle in a few years too. Opinions wanted. TIA.

like the 358 but would go with 3006. always worked and getting better!

For me it would make a difference where I was hunting. I've hunted in thick timber and in open areas. I got within in slingshot range (maybe 25 yards) of a grizzly in Idaho while hunting elk in the 70's (He/she had been following me). In a case such as that I'd want as big a hammer as I could shoot. As it was I didn't have a license and the bear decided to move on. What I had in hand was a 308 Winchester with 165 Grand Slams.

My first choice for grizzly would likely be the 358 Norma magnum. But with a heavy premium bullet I'd take the 308 and feel well gunned even for bear in most places/situations.

I love 35 caliber and the 358 Norma would be a big thumper that would get the job done in my opinion.

I'd do it in 308 Norma Mag. I had it's twin, a 30-338 and I never found it lacking.

358 Norma for me. Just for grins. Love the big 35’s.

I’ve killed several bulls at the 400 yard mark and beyond in my normal elk hunting area. So as big a 35 fan as I am I’d go .30 for the sleeker bullets

If grizzly on the table. 358 all the way.

308 Norma

300 WBY AND 168 TTSX. DEAD ELK

I have had two .308 Norma's but no .358 Norma. Since I already did, I believe I would go with the .308 Norma grizzlies or not.

I have other larger bore rifles that fill the .358 Norma's role in my opinion.

Really only one choice....358 Norma! memtb

Did I read someplace that the small ring actions are only recommended for standard rounds? Or was that some hybrid like the FN small-ring with large-ring barrels?

I've been told by a couple of 'smiths that the HVA commercial small-ring is stout enough, but it requires some feed rail work to feed the magnums, plus opening up the bolt face.

I know it wasn't listed as a choice, but you could split the difference and go .338 mag.

I know very little about Mausers but what you say makes sense.

From what little I got to play with the 358 NM that would be my pick. I have dies and half box of DT 180 TTSX (other half is once fired brass) I'll trade you for some components if you go this route! I base that on the "almost" 358NM velocities/kills I made with a very hot loaded 35 whelen Improved,200X2970; 250X at 2550; 250 NP at 2750!; 310 Woodleigh 2415fps ; its a killer and still reaches way out there! Oh yeah!

Yep

I love .358s of any flavor with the Whelen being my favorite. I have everything here to feed a .358 Norma and had plans to build one....Even with that being said for a dedicated elk rifle I think the .308 Norma is the better mouse trap. Better bullet selection, less recoil, better long-range ballistics, and certainly won't bounce off a Grizzly. It is a Norma so you still get some style points.

Less money and less recoil with the 308 Norma, plus the 308 Norma is, IMO one the best .30 magnums. Seriously accurate due to long case neck and better concentric bore alignment. Shorter case than most .30 Std Mags, better able to load heavy for caliber with BC advantages. Lacks in nothing, with modern powders and twist rate, it’ll push 180 gr @ 3,075 fps, 200 gr @ 2900 fps, 212 gr @ 2,850 fps and 225 gr @ 2,750 fps. With high BC bullet technology it is a real winner. Easily can take deer size game up through brown bear from close or long range. While the 358 Norma is a suburb chamber it lacks the versatility of the 308 Norma in IMO and is more in line with shooting a 375 magnum, which is fine if you like recoil, heavier rifles, stout cross bolts for stock protection under recoil, and less bullet choice versatility. The 358 Norma would make a fine, specialized guide gun for big browns, the 308 Norma is a better hunter’s field gun IMO.

with respect please take this kindly, when i go elk hunting with a rifle i like to use more normal cartridges just in case and need to borrow or buy ammo . good luck with your hunt and choice of a cartridge,Pete53

Tough question - .358 is a weak diameter bullet-wise but I'd rather have the medium bore, especially if a grizzly is on the agenda. Hence why I built a .375 WSM that will likely be used for all elk applications going forward. If I had to choose I'd take the .358 I think and try the 250gr Partition or Weldcore. The A-Frame's BC is a little hard to stomach but an option too. I use it in my .375.

You'll get more penetration with a 200gr partition in the 308 Norma. Something like the load I posted above would work wonders.

There are a multiple versions of the small-ring Mauser. The 93, 94, 95, and 96 started off as military designs subject to the metallurgy of the day. I'd be wary of chambering a custom for a belted magnum on any of them.

In the 1960s, Husqvarna made an "improved" small-ring Mauser out of modern steel with most of the features of the 98 Mauser. You see these most commonly as the Model 1640, but they were also sold with different model numbers depending on the type of stock and some other variations. Some were chambered for 7mm Remington Magnum and other belted magnum cartridges so they're definitely strong enough. The first variations of these had steel bottom metal; later ones were alloy. I'd hold out for steel if I were using this action.


Okie John

My minimum for elk hunting in griz country is a 300 Wby. Making that fit into your Husky would be difficult. I do have a 338-06 AI, but have never hunted it. If the elk are gonna be 350 or less, I reach for my 358 Norma and never feel under gunned. If I expect the elk to be over 350, I'll take the 300 Wby. The days of elk hunting with a 270 Win are over if griz are nearby.

Not familiar with what bullet selection is available for the .358 NM . If the bullet selection is good I would go with the .358 Norma . If not the .308 NM with the 200 grain Partition would be my second choice.

+1. Can get some good heavies such as the 275 or 310 Woodleighs or a 275 A-Frame. I'd bet the 225 TSX would be a damn good one too.

358 Norma.

I’ve loaded 308 Norma for a friend’s Husqvarna rifle he used for caribou & elk. Shot very well with 180 grail in TTSX & max load of IMR 4350 but he likes his less stout loads, mine were 100% on 4 caribou he’s killed several elk with his loads & multiple times in Grizzly country.

This is a capable modern elk rifle & would work for Bear if needed. As a primary bear gun I’d go bigger than 35 caliber myself.

If you go the 358 route, let me know, I have an extra set of dies that I would part with.

My guide showing off my Colorado bull shot with .338 Win Mag with Texas heart shot running away beyond 100 yards.
The same rifle and Winchester 230 grain ammo did well in RSA too, making one shot kills on7 critters from Impala to Eland.

.358 Norma

Available ammunition? Dies? A 308 will shoot flatter and todays bullets are not our father's. But I never heard anyone wish they had a smaller gun for dangerous game. Assuming you are not recoil shy. You cant flinch and miss fast enough to stop anything.

Just go with a 9.3x62 shooting 250gr Nosler accubonds @ 2650fps. This will hammer a grizz if you bump into one and reach out there for elk also

That’s a strong, and likely erroneous, assumption for most people.

Yeah the 338 Win Mag doesn’t get much love anymore, but it is one hellava field cartridge on most any game around the globe. 160 gr-300 gr class bullets are about as good as it gets for versatility for a one gun hunter. Great bullet designs, great terminal ballistics, and great selection of ammunition worldwide. I’ve always favored mine for elk in my younger days and it never disappointed. These days I’m more inclined to utilize my 308 Win.

I think the .338WM is pretty hard to beat. I have had 2 built one on a ZG-47 (large ring) and one on a g33/40 (small ring). Both have been used to take elk <100yds to 400+yds.

.

Elmer was right about the .33's.........and Jack was somewhat right about the .277's.

Who championed the .24/6mm's?

Page?

Elmer wouldn't even likely deem it an adequate coyote rifle.

now you are talking sense

358 Norma. It'll launch at 250 partition fast enough to expand at 400-450 yards and a 225 accubond out to 600 yards.

To me the 300 Norma is great if you're building a rifle you intend to shoot a lot further.

I also love the 338wm. It was made for elk hunting. However, it was not on the list the op wanted. I believe he mentioned the 308 Norma magnum (also not the 300 norma, like someone else mentioned in a recent post^^^^) and the 358 Norma.

That 225 TSX worked plenty well from my Whelen. It’ll penetrate quite far. Out of a Norma it should be a rocket ship.

A .30 Mag with today’s bullet choices, especially with 180-220 gr .550 - .700 G1 BC along with their high SD are IMO the best NA heavy game magnum caliber that offers the most versatility that can be had. From any range, especially from 400-800 yards and properly scoped the .30 Mag combines ballistics and power that can’t be matched by a .35 way out there. The .35, while potent, can’t hang with the long range capability of the .30 Mag, mostly due to the bullet technology available in the .30 and that lacking in the non sweet spot .35. For plains and mountains on smaller game up through elk, moose and mountain grizzly you would be hard pressed to find a more shootable, potent and versatile setup for an all around NA big game rifle. The 308 Norma can push a 212 gr high BC (.660) bullet easily at 2,850 fps from a std length long action magnum bolt face, that’s some serious big game lights out, especially way out there if you’re good enough to make shots way out there. Only one man’s opinion.

Well, this is the campfire so why not go off the reservation?

With the choices referenced, the 338 makes a lot of sense. Will fit in an 06 length action, components are comparatively easy to come by, ballistics match up very well with the 300 WM out to great distances, and a great selection of bullets these days to do anything you need or want to do... what's not to like? In grizzly country any of your choices would be fine and the .338 would be another fine choice to consider. Flip a coin and you still wouldn't be wrong with any of them...

Good post Ross, and like I said in an earlier post if you use a bullet like a 200gr partition, it's going to do a damn lot of penetrating. I would not feel undergunned while carrying my 308 Norma magnum and shooting 200gr partitions. My rifle also holds 5 of those beasts, but that is neither here nor there as compared to the OP's rifle... I like the idea of extra firepower, not that you would necessarily need 5 shots, but in a stressful situation you never know what's going to happen. I've had buddies fling 5 shots at a deer and miss, now try that on a bear running right at you... I'd probably even take a 35 Whelen, that holds 5 in the box, over the mighty 358 NM... Quicker follow up shots, easier to handle and shoot well and more in the magazine all have their benefits..

The .308, You are not hunting elephants or cape buffalo.

That’s my primary elk rifle, too.

In answer to the OP, I would likely choose the .308 Norma Magnum. I’m a .35 fan but the Norma might be a bit harsh on the recoil.

358 Norma has some serious ballistics going for it and fairly heavy bullets, too.

Sherwood

If you’re changing bolt face and feed rails, 33 Nosler would get it done

Go past go change the rules leave the bolt face alone and the rails too. 338-06 for the win 210 partitions for the gold. My Redding dies ihave a tapered expander ball that takes once fired 30-06 out to .338 in one pass. Kiss principle. Mb

308 from your choices.

I would do a 338-06.

Out of the two choices first given, I would go with the .308. BUT, if I were truly doing a custom build for an Elk rifle, I think I would choose a 35 Whelen. Just my two cents....

I'm sure I wouldn't pick either one given your criteria. I would go .338 win mag! As good all around cartridge as any for what your asking the new rifle to accomplish!

In a small ring mauser, I think you would enjoy either the 338/06 or 35 whelen with a 24 inch barrel. With todays newer powders and good bullets, you are "right there" with the killing effect of the older bullets/powders in the magnums of the time. If you hunt places where 350-400yds are more common, lighter weight monos or Premiums. I shot a Black Wildebeest at a laser ranged 347yds with a 200X from a 35 Whelen AI, zeroed just +2"@100. A zebra at 250yds same load/hunt. A 185 or 210 in the 338 and the 200 to 225 in the whelen, youre gold! BUT...there is much "pinash" in having the only 358 NM on the Mountain, ha? Have a ball friend, jsut let us know what you decided, we "need that closure",

308 for multi use. A 200g partition in 308 can do amazing things. I'd not feel undergunned with one. I'm hunting elk in an area filled with grizzly, island park, again this year.

Last year I had the cow tag and took a light 7-08 with a lighter load. While walking through some thick trees I kept thinking about the grizzly that cleaned up an entire bull elk gut pile there within 30 minutes of us cleaning it 2 years prior.

With that in mind and the fact that I have the November bull tag I'm probably mostly going to carry my old stand by 300 wsm with 215g hybrids this year. That load has proven very deadly on deer and elk and I'm more confident with it in a hostile bear area.

Reminds me that I need to finish up a load for my 44 mag 329 pd with the Lee 310g cast because I'd like to have that on my hip when I clean this year's elk. Seeing how quick a grizzly ate an entire large bulls gut pile left us wonder if it was watching us gut and load that bull.

Bb

358 Norma. Be Well, RZ.

I will just do the 308 Norma Mag without stress

I love the 300WM and similar, I personally think they give you an edge with good bullets. From near (lots of power/penetration) to far (easier to hit with, again with power.) While I know lots of guys who use smaller calibers on big game, I "like" how a big gun works on big animals, especially with a less than perfect shot. I tell guys just use a rifle style/weight/handling that you are comfortable with and go for it! A 308 Norma with todays powders, shucks, you are Gold! Have fun pard.

What did the OP decide? I'm curious????

Just bump up to the 9.3x62 Mauser and call it good or perfect which ever is best.

Of the two choices 308 Norma, however if it were me I would go 300 Win Mag and forget it…

Have had both would be 358NM all the way. Cheers NC

I rebarreled a rifle to a 308 Norma Magnum.Mine has a 26" barrelled and it is about the same as a 24" barreled 300 Win Mag.Really easy to get over 3100fps with a 180gr bullet.The data you find for this round is very limited because most of it was established years ago.Quick Load Data I had run for my rifle with modern powders will open your eyes to how good this round really is.Quick Load is showing 3190fps with a 180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with 77.1grs of Reloader 26 loaded at 63250psi out of a 26" barrel.

I like to name my rifles. My 308 Norma, I called, "Big Titty". A Dr at the rifle range saw me shooting tiny groups with it and gave me a "I don't want to sell it" price for it.

I've sold a few really nice rifles for that price Mr keith, ha. Hey, life is short, I look at it that they will enjoy "that one" while I get to go have another "new one" tricked out/used, ha.Its only stuff, although I the one's I have earmarked for my grandkids...no deal.