Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Question about 150/165 loads for .308

Is it true that factory 150 loads for the .308 will outperform 150 grain bullets in .30-06 and the 165 loads in .308 will be about equal to 165s in .30-06? Heard that the higher pressures of the .308 allow it to push lighter loads better. Obviously the .30-06 is better for 180 grain and up. I read this online somewhere and am not an expert on ballistics.

Dunno about the 150 and 165 gr. bullets in factpry ammo but I did at one time run a comparisom of 180 gr. Winchester Power Point 180 gr in rifles with 22" barrel. For all practical purposes velocity was the same.
I have run 165 gr. hand loads in the .308 and they gave 2550 FPS from an 18.5" barrel Ruger RSI and 2610 FPS from a 22" Winchester M70. The only 165 gr. factory I ever ran through either rifle was the Speer Nitrex and they were within 10 to 15 FPS of my hand load for the /308.
When I did shoot 150 gr. bullet in the .308 and 30-06 years ago I didn't own a chronograph and dropped them due to them doing more meat damage that I cared to put up with.
Paul B.

There are too many ifs, ands and buts to give a short answer.

Generally speaking, a 30-06 loaded to it's full pressure with an appropriate powder will produce higher speeds with 150 and 165 grain bullets than will a 308 at its full higher pressure.

Now if you compare a weak 30-06 factory load to a good 308 load you may we'll see something different.

I have both, but am being very slow and inconclusive in load development.

What I do have some experience in is extracting elk carcasses shot with both. Comparing my experiences with the 06 against my Dad's 308 combined with examining the dead elk. I think I can say the difference is impossible to see.

This. More powder means more velocity all else being equal. Just ask Roy WeatherBy.

Can't get anymore solid that that.

Pretty easy to get 2800 with 180's with an 06. 2900 with 165's. 3050 with 150's. The 308 gets the same velocities if you go down one step in bullet weight. That's just the way it is. GD

I'd pretty much agree with this. There's too many variables to get a real direct comparison. In general when loading for speed I can get about 3050 with the right powder and a max or possibly above load with a 150g in a 22" 30-06.

Maxing out a 150 in a 22" 308 I've not usually been able to get much over 2950. I'm sure someone somewhere has surpassed these maybe with powders I haven't tried yet but in general that's what I've found. I don't have pressure testing equipment so it's by no means scientific that's just what I've experienced.

Comparing my 700 Ti in 30-06 to my 700 SS Mtn in 308 for example. In the 1st gen ti 30-06 I run the lapua scenar 155g over a max load of h4350 and I get 3030 fps. I run the 155 scenar in the 308 over a max load of varget and get 2920 fps. Both are 22" Stainess Remington factory mtn contour barrels. Of course I have no real idea what the pressures are I just know in both of them I wasn't comfortable going any hotter based on bolt lift, flattened primers and chrony results etc.

In the end the 30-06 holds more powder so should be capable of more speed with any bullet st similar pressures. As far as factory stuff goes its all over the place from brand to brand and load to load. I don't doubt there are some factory 308 loads that outperform 30-06 loads. In field performance I consider them pretty much equal.

I used to shoot both long range with 208 amax bullets. My 30-06's ran 2675-2700 with a 208 and my 308 ran about 2550 with the 208. The 30-06 had a 2" longer barrel though. Seems like across all weights I average about 100 fps more in the 30-06 adjusting for barrel lenghts.

Another variable is mag length allowing more seating depth. Most short actions don't offer much room for the 308. Some long actions like a 700 give you lots of room to seat out which increases capacity a bit. I love how a 30-06 on a rem LA feeds and functions and love the box space.

Bb

I’ve owned and tested a couple of dozen 308 and 30-06 rifles over the last 15 years or so. The answer to your question(s) is a solid maybe.

Several years ago, I compared a bunch of factory 308 and 30-06 ammo in a pair of Tikka T3s. The differences between them got less significant with every test.
• The 30-06 averaged 78 fps faster with 150, 165, and 180-grain bullets.
• The 308 had less recoil and barrel heat.
• The 308 was more accurate.

But you need to look at performance in more than one rifle. The fastest 308/150 factory load that I found goes 2,886 fps from the 22” barrel of a Remington 700 but only 2,705 out of the 23.5” barrel of that Tikka. The fastest 308/180 factory load did 2,630 fps from the Tikka by only 2,561 fps from the Remington.

The slowest 30-06/150 factory load did 2,807 fps from a 22” Ruger Model 77 but 2,984 fps in a 24” Model 700 Package Rifle. That M-700 also shot the Winchester 150-grain Power Point load at 2,929 fps. 150-grain Greek HXP 30-06 military ammo sold through the CMP seems to do 2,700-2,750 in every 30-06 I own, which is a special kind of magic.

In the 22” Ruger (and in most other 22” barrels) most 30-06/180 factory loads did just over 2,600 fps. Winchester 180-grain Power Point factory ammo routinely clocked 2,700 fps in a 24” Model 70 Classic and a 24” commercial FN Mauser and 2,650-ish in a couple of 22” Husqvarnas. Remington’s 180-grain CoreLokt load went 2,712 fps in the 24” 700 but only 2,673 in the Model 70 Classic. I have not had the best accuracy with hyper-velocity loads in the 30-06. Several of Federal’s older loadings were 1-200 fps above what you’d expect for the 30-06 but accuracy was about 3 MOA. Hornady Superformance did 2,775 in the 24” Model 700 Package rifle with slightly better accuracy.

So here’s what I learned:
• Most factory 30-06 ammo is somewhat underloaded. Most factory 308 ammo is not.
• A fast 308 can match or slightly beat a typical 30-06 with factory ammo. A fast 30-06 outruns the typical 308 by about 100 fps. It takes a lot of testing to find out whether your rifle is fast or not and it's probably not worth the trouble.
• Trajectories of the 308/150 and the 30-06/180 are very close to being the same.
• The 308 tends to be more accurate.
• Handloading increases accuracy in the 308 and speed in the 30-06, but probably not enough to matter.


Okie John

Hits the nail on the head. I shake my head sometimes when you have guys thinking the 308w will match the 30-06 in speeds. Tit for tat, it doesn't. Its like guys saying the 30-06 matches 300wm velocities. There's a reason you have different sizes of cartridges. And the guys trying to say the 308w is more accurate than the 30-06 in a hunting rifle: Total bs. I've had many of each and have never had an issue of getting the 30-06 to shoot well. If I were to compare the 2, I'd have to say that the 308 winchester rifles I've had were not as good of shooters as some of my 30-06's. In a hunting rifle, most people would never see a definitive difference between the 2 cartridges, when it comes to acuracy/precision. At this moment, I wish my stainless Tikka T3 308w shot as well as my old pre 64 model 70 30-06 fwt, but that is just how it goes sometimes.

This may smack of heresy (in fact, I'm sure it does), but I haven't used a chronograph in years. Just work up accurate loads and go shoot paper and critters. Neither paper nor critter has been able to differentiate velocity levels.

This. Having shot more than a few elk with both the 30-06 and 308 (and 300 WSM) I've yet to detect any difference, but I've never shot an elk past 350 yards. Most cartridges are equal inside 500 yards.

I'm a 308 fan. Kicks a little, kills a lot.

Brad, I like that. :-) Or.... the .308 = "all killer, no filler"

If you’re trying to decide on a rifle, get the one that you like the best, fit, balance, handling, etc. That matters more than 100 fps.

I have a bunch of .308 bullets, and as it happens, a whole lot of .308 brass right now, so that’s my .30 caliber preference at present. Factory ammo ain’t a factor…..

My 308 does 2900 fps with a 155 Scenar & Varget. Cannot see any reason not to use it. Have left my 300 WSM home for the last two seasons. My 280’s average 2820 with 150 gr commercial ammo.

I have loved my 308’s since 1978 when I bought my first one.