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Joseph Smith fell down and saw the bright light, claims Jesus came to him and he speaks for Jesus. Sounds familiar.

Are you claiming Mormons aren't Christians and don't believe in Christ as their savior?

Kent

So do I.

And to me, the all-inclusive foundation...the very foundation...of His ekklesia is NOT an assemblage of ancient writings that we call the Bible. To me, the all-inclusive foundation...the very foundation...of Jesus’ ekklesia is the actuality and truth of Jesus’ Resurrection.

Without Jesus’ Resurrection, the entire faith of Christianity is reduced to nothingness. The apostle Paul said, “And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.” The New Testament wouldn’t even exist unless the Resurrection occurred.

1st C. Scripture says that we have been given all things pertaining to life and Godliness. It's either true or not!

If true, anything else is either more than, less than or not needed!

The Mormons (LDS) and Jehovah Witness missionaries both lost me when I allowed them in and lo and behold they both opened the book of Ezekiel and presented themselves as Israel and God's chosen. They used chapter 37 and claimed to be the dry bones. The J.W.s had a young man that got angry with me in my own house when I pointed out my take on the story happened already in 1948 and pertained to the actual chosen people (Jews) and I told him God had not forsaken the Jews. The Mormons claimed it was them and the valley was the Great Basin in Utah.

Make them pledge allegiance to the flag on your porch before they open any discussion

Obviously I'm asking you the same questions you are asking others about Paul.

You wish to ignore Mormons as others wish to ignore Paul.

You asked Hastings twice and even quoted his answer in the second question, he answered... I believe Jesus was EXACTLY who he claimed to be.

What was the purpose of your continued questioning? though I know why.

So do you believe Mormons who accept Christ as their savior through the book of Mormon are saved?

Kent

No need for you to be upset. You don't have to answer to the Creator for me. I'm reading and digesting the scriptures in the Bible and also some of the writings that weren't included. I'm going to circle the bait and the decoys a while. It pays to be careful when extraordinary claims are made without extraordinary evidence.

This seems to be a poorly worded trick question. It lays out or at least infers a false premise. That premise is that it is the “same” Jesus being referred to.

A comparison of “who Jesus is and who He represents in the Godhead….. and also, what His function is in man’s salvation” is key. Simple put, the Jesus described in the Bible is not the same as the Jesus presented in Mormonism.

But you already knew this didn’t you?

Another comment…. Our local church once suffered sudden and very serious damage to our church building. Many local churches and a number of local businesses provided aid and support as our church worked through the difficulty.

Two local organizations provided very significant, much and timely support to us. One was the local Seventh Day Adventist church and the other was the local Mormon church….much needed, much appreciated and much assistance well beyond “we’re praying for you.” When we had a specific need, our pastor would often call them for assistance and they always provided it. They did good.

We had a special Sunday where the Mormon church leadership came to our our church was honored and thanked by our entire church congregation. They helped us a lot.

A bit unusual…. But while we have significant theological differences, if push came to shove, our congregation would stand with them and I believe they would stand with us.

Shared tasks and shared action during emergencies build strong bonds and strong affiliations.

Confused about religion during a time of revival in the state of New York where he lived in 1820, 14-year-old Joseph read a passage in the New Testament and went to the woods to pray. Joseph records that God and Jesus Christ appeared to him. "I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head," he wrote, "above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me." Within that light, he saw two personages — one of whom spoke Joseph's name, pointed to the other, and said, "This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" Church members refer to this experience as the "First Vision." It forever changed Joseph Smith and has become a central tenet of Latter-day Saint belief. It began the work of restoring the Church of Jesus Christ to the earth.

No trick, obviously both Paul and Smith came 'after' Jesus, with similar claims. Both wrote powerful words that inspired many people. I really liked Billy Graham growing up, was able to see him live a couple times in my teens, he definitely was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I don't have to believe any of their words are scripture to live in Christ.

I accept that Christ has a plan and path for every man as he said.

I accept that my path isn't the only road and neither is someone else's.

I don't have to conform to worldly words to live spiritually.

I will NEVER question another's personal salvation as Christ instructed.

But I will question those that, even thinly veiled, do. Where do you get the authority?

Someone here asked how many God's there were. Well God's infinite. Narrow minded people think they can understand infinite, it just goes forever... It does more than that, if you could somehow put a pin in a starting point, not only would it go forward, but forward in an infinite direction, it also would go backwards in an infinite direction, it would expand infinitely and collapse infinitely. There is an infinite amount of points all doing the same thing. Time goes forward and backward infinitely... It's unexplainable in finite words.

God isn't just 1, a finite number... he's infinite.

Go ahead and contain God in a small book of finite words, it's all good. But don't judge other's who see an infinite God.

Kent

His wife claims he obtained the book of mormon through scrying. Look it up.

You have already said thaht multiple times. The testimony of His resurrection is obtained through the Bible. Then you believe Paul's words in the Bible.

I guess Paul didn't have a wife to squeal on him when he was gone in the wilderness.

Kent

You are obtuse. As I said no I do not believe Mormons are saved through the book of Mormon or any other path taught through Mormonism. That goes with out saying because I'm a Christian. Do you understand what Christianity is. It is EXCLUSIVE. It excludes all other religions. Asking me such a question is a non sense question.

hastings and antler both deny parts of the Bible. The questions I'm asking them is how they can claim so much knowledge about Christ and deny large parts of the Bible. How is that possible. Both seem to suffer from a cognitive dissonance. They say they believe something which conflicts with what they say they don't believe. They claim Biblical truths and then say they deny the Bible. Which is it. How do they get these truths they claim to believe.

So Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didn't testify of the resurrection in the Gospels?

Kent

I see. What non Biblical sources are you reading? Let me guess ... the Gnostic Gospels maybe?

Extraordinary claims don't require extraordinary evidence. The goofy internet atheist crowd believes that non sense. Claims require evidence. Full stop.

You have been obvious this whole time, an obvious follower of Paul. Paul is exclusive and Christ is inclusive. Neither Paul or you define Christ or anyone else's salvation.

Kent

God doesn’t ‘only’ reveal Himself to us through the Bible. There is also...under the guidance of the Holy Spirit...natural revelation and special revelation ~ reason, empirical experience, and subjective experience (for examples). And I’ve already said that multiple times too.

Jesus gave us a directive to examine the evidence. I embrace the role of natural revelation and special revelation...including reason...in Christian theology. Without natural revelation, one couldn’t even understand the Bible...or pretty much anything else about reality...! Luther realized this, he didn’t dismiss reason, he said he’d only recant if he could be proven wrong by Scripture ‘or’ reason.

Good response…. But…. But pls do not think that I personally believe God is “contained in a small book of finite words.”

God indeed must be worshiped in spirit and in truth. Only a few words, but they are the words of God. They stand.

I also believe that God is NOT the God described by the “all things to all people” folks. What one believes does indeed matter… it is of great importance.


Now, to a sticky point….. does one have to understand God with all the theological implications that may accompany a saving faith? I did not when I became a follower of Jesus.

Seems to me that God can have a …. or cause…. a life changing experience with a small child…. The child … or even an adult with limited theological knowledge can….through the call of the Father, the witness of the Holy Spirit and the power of the saving sacrifical blood if the Son of God….. enter into a new vibrant relationship with God Himself.

Also, as ….who was it? …..Old Hat? Like him…..Whether or not some individual has a saving faith in Jesus” is not my call.”


Having said this … I get a bit concerned when I read someone defending a “denomination” ….. be it Catholicism, Baptist, Mormon, Church of Christ…whatever…. It is not the denomination that saves…. It is not a strong held belief in some theological system that saves….. it is Jehovah God….. it is the one and only Son, Jesus enables a sinful man to stand righteous before God.

No they didn’t.The Old Testament meant nothing...zero, zilch, nada...to the Gentiles.