Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ultrasonic Cleaning - thoughts and recomendations

I have used ultrasonic cleaning in the engineering lab with great results, and am considering buying a unit for my personal use. It seems like it would be a great way to clean out my AR-15 bolt and carrier, my 1911 frame and other guns with a minimum of disassembly. Also seems like the best choice for case cleaning after forming to remove any residual lube. Any experience? Any recomendations of units or cleaning or lubrication solutions? I tried searching the Campfire and found nothing regarding ultrasonic cleaning.

go to this
http://www.6mmbr.com/ultrasonic.html

I have been using the cheap and clean recipe for my brass. It works great! I could imagine that it would work for other gun parts as well.
Besides you can sell it to the wife as a way to clean all her jewelry. Works great on all those diamonds!

Willys46

I have a small unit that I use for brass cleaning. I put in hot water, and a squirt of Birchwood and Casey Brass Cleaner, give it two three-minute cycles, and rinse thoroughly. Does a great job!

I then put a paper towel on my bench, and put the cases on it, mouth down, to dry.

Harbor Freight usually has small ones available for around $30.

I bought a thrift store sonic jewelry cleaning unit for $2. Then I concocted a scientific solution of 1 glub of vinegar (some vinegar is 5% acetic acid and some is 4% or less. It is also sold as "grains", with 120 grain equal to 12%) and finished filling the container with water. I run the machine for 3 or 4 minutes and rinse in the other compartment for about 2 or 3 minutes.

I suppose I could also try some citric acid and acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin). A weak organic acid is probably sufficient to do the job. There's probably plenty of citric acid in diluted Real Lemon, but I have powdered citric acid too.

BTW, the NaHCO3 (baking soda) used for neutralization in "Cheap and Clean" should produce CO2 if it's really doing anything. Citric acid and baking soda is the fizzy part of Alka Seltzer that produces sodium citrate and CO2.

I should have added that acetic acid and baking soda produces sodium acetate and CO2, which is essentially the same reaction as with citric acid.

Alkaline solutions usually work better than acidic solutions for grease and grime.

MM

NaOH plus grease/oil=soap, like sodium tallowate.

Alkaline solutions will aggressively attack brass. Mild organic acids will not, at least not as quickly.

Paul5388's comments and quotes are spot-on.

Shoot, red KOOL AIDE will work fine, just don't add the sugar.
COKE or Pespi are great for cleaning, "road film" from your windshield.

My business is manufacturing industrial cleaning compounds and systems.

be careful what you clean......things like pearls and turquoise generally react badly to most cleaning solutions and the like

That's true if fairly caustic; the comment re: alkaline solutions and cleaning was intended to refer to gun parts as most MILD alkaline (not caustic) cleaners have emulsifiers and surfactants to help remove grease & oil on steel parts.

If cleaning brass, then yes, MILD acidic materials like citric or acetic acids work best assuming reasonable amounts of grease and powder fouling.

Actually, for brass CLEANING after shooting, I think tumbling works best and if one wants the brass "brighter" then the acids can be used.

MM

Cider Vinegar will fit the bill for your Acetic Acid and brass shiner.

Ultrasonic cleaning seems like too much of a hassle, with all that messing with smelly solutions, small quantities of cases, etc. I can drop 100 or 200 cases in my tumbler, go away for several hours, come back and take them out. Takes about 5 minutes of my actual time and they get shinier than they ever did when I used an industrial ultrasonic cleaning arrangement. My biggest headache with tumbling is getting small grains of media stuck in the flashholes.

Back in the "old days", we didn't worry about brass not looking like new. That was even less trouble than tumbling, sifting and inspecting brass for debris.

The only real reason to use a cleaner is to try to fool someone into thinking you aren't shooting reloads.

If you look at pages 40 and 43 of Handloader's Digest, 8th Edition, you'll notice the conspicuous absence of any "cleaning" other than "1. Wipe case clean to prevent dirt from scratching case, and insides of Sizer Die."

Thanks all for your help. Being a little dense I have to admit I am somewhat confused by some of the dialog. I am a wrench and not a chemist so most of the excellent advise from Paul went over my head.

What do you use for cleaning firearms? Both steel and aluminum.
If the recomendation was Sodium Tallowate - where do you get it?
Was ammonia another recomendation for cleaning firearms? I know it disolves copper, but thought it would etch steel and attack aluminum.

What do you use to displace the water and lubricate firearms after ultrasonic cleaning? The L&R solution is silicone based - I could not find the MSDS sheet for Sharpertek's or Crest.
I think the comment regarding alkaline solutions was addressing firearms, but I wasn't sure. Nor am I sure what would bee too caustic. The only alkaline cleaners I can think of are oven cleaners which I would expect to be too caustic.

Regarding brass cleaning I think I am clear that the bright and shiny formula, diluted vinegar or other acids will work but need to be neutralized.

Vince,

Sodium Tallowate is just a fancy name for a type of soap. It would usually be appropriate, with water, for black powder guns and very little more.

I know it's a bad word, but WD40 should take care of the residual water. However, it's pretty light for lubricating very well.I still have a bad habit of using military LSA on many of my firearms for a lubricant.

I also have an opinion that too many firearms are cleaned to death. I usually use a brush for most of my cleaning chores. Brass/bronze brush in the bore and a toothbrush for most other tasks. External surfaces get a good coat of Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW), since it has enough solvents to clean and enough carnuaba wax to protect and provide a degree of lubrication after the solvents evaporate.

Back in the "old days", we used beeswax to lubricate drawers that slid on wooden rails. It also kept them from sticking. Beeswax is also a common ingredient in cast bullet lubes. Therefore, wax does have some lubricating qualities.

Shiny brass is just a "dog and pony" show, i.e. meaningless show.

Thanks Paul.
I have heard about using paste wax before but have never tried it. Definately worth looking into. Another suggestion I received was rinsing in denatured alcohol and then using Kroil for lubing working components since it is very light also. Dry cleaning fluid is typically Naptha which dries with minimal residue, mineral spirits is paint thinner - enamel reducer - and does tend to leave a film which may be why WD-40 gets the bad rap. Regardless, WD-40 has it uses and is often abused. I think your suggestion is a good one.
When we shoot we shoot a lot, however our firearms often end up being stored for months at a time so effectively cleaning and lubing them becomes necessary to prevent corrosion and build up of gunk. My Dad taught us to keep our firearms clean and properly lubed, something he brought back from his Korean tour in the early 50's. I guess it is the same as the brass, more for looks than function, but we do like our tools (firearms and ammo)to look as good as they perform.
Thanks again for all of the advise, I'll let you know how it works out.

...and to get the sizing die lubricant off of 'em.

Since metal has pores too, it's doubtful that tumbling is going to remove anything other than the excess sizing lube, which can also be done by wiping.

Back in the days of RCBS case lube pads, with a substance that resembled STP oil treatemnt, we still didn't do anything except wipe the cases down. I still have Norma and R-P brass from the 1960s that were treated that way.

2B alcohol (denatured with 2 parts Benzene) will certainly degrease and kill the germs (not that killing germs is an issue on a gun) on the metal. Rubbing alcohol is 30% water, so it's probably not a good choice. Wallie World spray carb cleaner is a pretty good degreaser for less than $1/can (it's also hard on many wood finishes).

A lot of the old military cleaning drill was to ensure the gas system operated properly when needed and to give soldiers/marines something to do. I qualified with an M1 Garand the first time and a M16 the second time. You have to be pretty old to have qualified with a M1903A3 (we only carried M1903s for D&C)!

Walmart brand cleaners are bad news! I bought some brake parts cleaner (I go through a case a month) as it was cheaper. It more resembled carb cleaner and it stripped paint off the surfaces that it touched! It also damages plastics and makes them cloudy- just like carb cleaner. Be careful with that stuff!

I just use a little TSP in water and this works well.

At work, we had a large L&R cleaner with two tanks- one with cleaner and one with lube. They really do work, but I find it hard to believe that a $30 Harbor Freight cleaner will compare to the $1200 L&R. I would like to get one for myself and I would buy the commercial solutions or a cleaner from an industrial supply.

I tried using paint thinner in my tumbler and it ruined it

Reading labels can be a real chore, especially when so many abbreviations are used that may be unfamiliar (TSP is Tri-Sodium phosphate). The ketones, like acetone, MEK (Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone) and etc., are usually pretty "hot" solvents. We used to use acetone to melt/"glue" together plexiglas pieces for special lab projects. It stands to reason solvents from that group would be hard on plastics.

Those same solvents are part of the mixture called "lacquer thinner", which explains the need to be careful with them around wood finishes.

Methylene chloride is a common ingredient in paint strippers (many times with wax added for vertical surface use) and soak type carburetor cleaners (along with cresolic acid, that's why it smells like a cresote post!).

The bottom line is to know what you're using, for safety's sake and to prevent damage to what you're working on. Do a Google search for "Ed's Red" if you want a general purpose bore/gun cleaner you can make yourself.

I was given a case of Methylene Choride and told it was "degreaser" that is some nasty stuff. Burned me good the first time I used it and it got on the back of my hand.

I guess there isn't any "standard" that is used when making up Brake parts cleaner and Carburator cleaner.