The will to fight may have been there but no war works unless you have the logistics to fight it, whether a guerilla war or not, and when the enemy occupies your homeland and whatever means of production you may have had those logistics have to come from somewhere else. The Northern blockade of the South was very effective and after a general surrender by the officially recognized Confederate government* no European country was going to support a hopeless force. Supplies could have come through Mexico by some foreign power interested in annoying the USA but with the limited mobility of the time operations could only extend a relatively short distance from the Mexican border.
It's possible that an organized albeit limited guerilla force could have been sustained but to what end? Who would they kill except for hit and run raids against the occupying forces who were already becoming used to dealing with Comanches, Sioux and other extremely talented light cavalry forces? That, plus invariably the "if you ain't 100% with me you're 100% agin' me" attitude would have prevailed among the guerillas and their tactics would have devolved into terror attacks against the local populace, ala the Viet Cong's and the Khmer Rouge's atrocities against the native populace.
After Lincoln's death the overwhelming mood of the North was to punish the South in every way possible. They weren't about to quit and go home because some border outposts were sporadically raided, instead they would have stomped their boot on the South in an even harsher manner. So now you have a small group of people continuing a war folks were sick of, that causes the Yankee invader to enact harsher and harsher reprisals, plus the guerillas are killing your friends and neighbors.
Guerilla wars work as a nucleus or spark of a general revolution, they can be carried on indefinitely when they have a reliable source of weapons and supplies and most of the country supports them or at least doesn't act against them, but they only prevail when the people of the foreign power get sick of the war and eventually decide to go home. Though the South viewed the North as a foreign power the North considered the South as part of one country, there was no foreign home to go home to, they were just reintegrating a part of their previously unified country. In 1865 conditions just weren't there to support that type of warfare.
* my memory is sketchy here, but I don't believe any foreign power ever officially recognized the Confederate States as a legitimate government. England was thinking about it but that whole slavery thing kind of made them shy away.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Insurgencies come with their own set of challenges for the insurgent. Increased crime, and increased violent crime in particular, being one of them. Just because a war might be raging doesn’t mean criminals aren’t doing their thing. In fact… they take full advantage of the chaos. I interviewed a prisoner in Iraq, who turned himself over to us, and who we learned was a serial killer. A true psychopath... deranged to the core. His crimes in any place not consumed by war, wouldn’t have gone unnoticed. But they largely did in Iraq with the exception of the local civilian populace who he terrorized.
That’s just one element. Consider that along with everything that comes with protracted war… like air strikes, gun fights, IEDs, IDF, summary execution, beheadings, no power, no water, no trash services, etc… ain’t no way women on either side of the political isle in this country will tolerate that. And the minute they start running their gums… the insurgency is toast.
Wouldn’t have been all that different back in the 1860s.
Originally Posted by Commandant of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy
“You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”
A prescient quote from William Tecumseh Sherman
In the first part of the war the South had better generals, namely Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and they won a number of victories. But as time went by, the greater resources of the North began to tell and Lincoln got much better leadership in the form of Grant and Sherman. After that, the defeat of the South was probably a foregone conclusion.
At the end, Robert E Lee refused to countenance a guerilla resistance. He was an honorable man and thought such a thing not only dishonorable, but bad for everyone. I'd say he was right.
Originally Posted by Commandant of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy
“You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”
A prescient quote from William Tecumseh Sherman
In the first part of the war the South had better generals, namely Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and they won a number of victories. But as time went by, the greater resources of the North began to tell and Lincoln got much better leadership in the form of Grant and Sherman. After that, the defeat of the South was probably a foregone conclusion.
At the end, Robert E Lee refused to countenance a guerilla resistance. He was an honorable man and thought such a thing not only dishonorable, but bad for everyone. I'd say he was right.
I wonder if the south had adopted mostly asymmetrical warfare to start with, would maybe the North have been unable to muster the political will and popular support necessary to sustain a war that could have been carried on for 20 years. George Washington apparently knew to not go head to head against a stronger Army and Lee's ancestors were in on that little 7 year skirmish.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Originally Posted by Commandant of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy
“You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”
A prescient quote from William Tecumseh Sherman
In the first part of the war the South had better generals, namely Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and they won a number of victories. But as time went by, the greater resources of the North began to tell and Lincoln got much better leadership in the form of Grant and Sherman. After that, the defeat of the South was probably a foregone conclusion.
At the end, Robert E Lee refused to countenance a guerilla resistance. He was an honorable man and thought such a thing not only dishonorable, but bad for everyone. I'd say he was right.
I wonder if the south had adopted mostly asymmetrical warfare to start with, would maybe the North have been unable to muster the political will and popular support necessary to sustain a war that could have been carried on for 20 years. George Washington apparently knew to not go head to head against a stronger Army and Lee's ancestors were in on that little 7 year skirmish.
My original point exactly. We’ll never know but seeing how the US government fell to Afghanistan or the how the British Empire fell. It was something to think about.
Southerners can shoot better for sure. Especially when it is windy. We make better lovers to keep the women happy. We have our black folk better trained. Most have shoes now. We have Bourbon instead of blended whiskey. Much better cornbread.
Hell, lets try it again. Pick a date to start this $h!t .
Gun Shows are almost as comical as boat ramps in the Spring.
"What I was saying is if my kin folk 400 years ago had guns, we wouldn�t be having this conversation. I�m in favor of guns and encourage everyone I know to have them because the last time we didn�t have them we were abused.� Rep.Mitchell.
If you want to really judge why the South lost the war, you need only look at what happened in the summer of 1863. On the one hand, you had Grant's move on Vicksburg. At the same time, you had Lee's move into Pennsylvania that culminated at Gettysburg.
Grant built a multi-pronged strategy, coming at Vicksburg from every direction, using both land and naval assets. He had a clear target with a strategic goal that would cripple the South if it succeeded. He threw every conceivable asset at his disposal into taking the target, and when it was over, he had wrested control of the Mississippi River from the South and cut off all supplies coming from the West.
Lee? Look, I know Lee was a strategic genius and all, but what sort of war-winning goal was there for him in rural Pennsylvania? What was there that caused him to bet the farm and go for broke? What if Lee had succeeded? What then? Let's say he'd gotten all the way to Harrisburg and even taken Harrisburg? What then? Was the North going to throw in the towel? Was Pennsylvania going to join the South? Was Lincoln going to say: "That's it guys! He's made it Harrisburg."
I remember being told in school that Lee wanted to go into Pennsylvania to gain a boot factory and get his men reshod. However, that was indicative of a huge difference between the sides. While Grant was taking strategic war-winning objectives with well-supplied forces, Lee was dealing with the basic needs of his army, trying to keep them in the field.
I read somewhere From my understanding of Grant he was a mediocre General in the field but realized that the North had the numbers and industrialization so was good with loosing more men in order to grind the South down over time.
Grant a mediocre field commander? Dunno where you would have read that.
Washed out of the Army for drinking and a failure at everything he tried, given a commission almost as a fluke. Once back in the service he proves to be a natural leader of armies.
This poorly dressed borderline alcoholic prone to fits of despair wins a steady string of victories in the West that earn him promotions despite his many detractors. Fortunately for him, Abe Lincoln was his President and not Jeff Davis, else Grant might have remained in obscurity.
But for the fortunate arrival of Buell, Grant’s career might have ended with the Confederate surprise attack at Shiloh but even there he displays a coolness under fire, retrieving a situation that woulda had many generals conceding a defeat.
Grant’s Vicksburg campaign was brilliant, the best in that war. Defying military convention he severs his army from its supplies, lands below Vicksburg and marches East to defeat a Confederate force to his East, and then leaving that shattered force to his rear, turns around to besiege Vicksburg.
Comes East against Lee and a couple of bloody missteps but wars of attrition are by definition bloody, meanwhile unleashing Sherman to run riot in the South.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
From what I’ve read most historians believe that the South lacked the industrial centers to win the war despite having better leadership and overall the more committed and talented men. If winning the war was a war of attrition that the South couldn’t win outright. Why didn’t the South fight more of a defensive gorilla warfare strategy similar to Afghanistan?
It seems if the South had fought more of a resistance war using men such as General Forrest as hardline resistance to run spec ops in the against the North while also running raids setting fire to towns and fields in the North from Virginia that they could have made life miserable enough on the North to drag it out and break there will at some point. It worked in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and over most of the the British Empire. It seems that it would have worked for the South. The one thing working against the South would have been the rebel leadership being easy targets due to being obvious fixed target plantation owners but the masses it seems could have blended in as average every day folks just trying to survive while running upsurp wars.
Why? Same reason a protracted insurgency probably wouldn't work today. Soccer moms... or whatever their equivalent was back then.
Soccer moms wouldn't like navigating roadside bombs on the way to yoga and Starbucks.
DESPITE what white American women would have us all believe, they've long since held plenty of power in this country.
Minorities have plenty of power. Playing the victim card is one of there most effective weapons. Around 1861 I doubt that the South was full of soccer mom/Karen’s but maybe I’m wrong.
American women wouldn't tolerate 20 years of war today and I doubt they would have back then.
Um, they just did tolerate 20 years of wasteful war, bud.
Southerners can shoot better for sure. Especially when it is windy. We make better lovers to keep the women happy. We have our black folk better trained. Most have shoes now. We have Bourbon instead of blended whiskey. Much better cornbread.
Hell, lets try it again. Pick a date to start this $h!t .
forrest wasn't under lee's command. as for lee's ability in the field... he did more with less constantly. if you haven't read the war, note that few of the leaders had even seen a division all in one place, never mind led one. they were mostly amateurs. for those who have been in the army, imaging going through basic and finding that all the others in your unit had no experience. then you fight a battle, in which confusion reigns. no radios. communication by courier. it's amazing they did as well as they did.
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
Originally Posted by Commandant of the Louisiana State Seminary of Learning & Military Academy
“You people of the South don't know what you are doing. This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing! You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people but an earnest people, and they will fight, too. They are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it … Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The North can make a steam engine, locomotive, or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or pair of shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical, and determined people on Earth — right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all else you are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with. At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, shut out from the markets of Europe as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. If your people will but stop and think, they must see in the end that you will surely fail.”
I don’t think anyone supports slavery but within the context of the times it was a thing over most of the globe. It was wrong but acknowledging slavery is wrong and that the Civil War also started the US down the path of Federal Government overreach are not mutually exclusive. As stated above lots of good people on both sides wound up dead and families torn apart.
And now its the north who has been diligently trying ernestly for decades to destroy the nation and its freedom and its 1 and 2A of its constitution. They have been pretty successful at it by using the great grandkids of the souths ages ago field hands. Biteme, Cuomo, De Blazio, Schumer, Sanders, Whitmore, Nadless......what a bunch of worthless grifters. Khazarian Mafia false jews for the most part.
The dimocraps sure made short work of Detroit and other once great northern citys. Humm, yellow dog dimocraps of the south move north or something and turn the offspring of their old slaves against the north or something? Maybe the war wasnt quite won by the north and was just postponed.
Now the north is importing the muzzies as fast as they can. You'd think, once burnt twice learnt. Maybe they did learn and are just hell bent on destroying the nation.
They appear to be doing a bang up job of it.
Last edited by jaguartx; 09/19/21.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
