Southerners can shoot better for sure. Especially when it is windy. We make better lovers to keep the women happy. We have our black folk better trained. Most have shoes now. We have Bourbon instead of blended whiskey. Much better cornbread.
Hell, lets try it again. Pick a date to start this $h!t .
the "black" problem that we have today is a direct problem that you ....the south ....have brought upon this country......bob
Most people who know the least little about the issue know that the slave trade was huge in southern states like Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island......
A lot of good and true men of both sides removed from the gene pool. To what end? I occasionally wonder what this nation(s), or the world for that matter, would look like today if on April 12th the Secesh hadn't fired and the Union had so eagerly responded. I wonder if Lt Farley had any qualms as he ordered that first signal mortar? Would there have been 2 nations? Would they have patched up their differences eventually? Would they have pulled together when the Germans torpedoed American ships causing our late entry into WW l? Would German be our language now? WWll? Would we be speaking Russian?
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
unfortunately, slavery was so much a part of the southern economy, that it wouldn't go away without the south being utterly defeated. slavery set this country back 50 years in the north and 100 years in the south.
If you're not having fun; you're not doing it right!
Yes, Lee was a great General but his forte was the attack. He liked big battles and thought he could sweep Gettysburg. Had he not waited until the North could solidify their position he might've won but it was against great odds. Longstreet was a genius defensive General and wanted to set a trap on defensible ground and force the North to challenge and it might've worked but Lee opposed that strategy. Sherman's march was stalled by Johnston's hit and run tactics but Lee wanted decisive battles so he replaced him with Hood. How'd that work out?
Most Northern Generals were not exactly thrilled with the slaves. They did not want to be burdened with noncombatants. Meade denied slaves any help. Sherman was at first sympathetic to the South but over time soured. He was friends with Beauregard and had worked with him in Louisiana. He hated the slaves and was a pretty shallow man all in all. He evolved into a ruthless General and was effective at bringing the South to it's knees.
This was essentially a war fought for the preservation of a dying lifestyle aggravated by territorial dispute. It is sad and like all wars too many lives were lost due to idiot decisions made by command officers. We lost many ships to German U-boats because our command could not and would not take advise from Britton about escorting them. We left our costal cities lighted and committed many sins that cost innocent lives. They relieved Rear Admiral Kimmel of duties after Pear Harbor for not being clairvoyant. It's a destructive learning process.
Something I've not seen here but should be noted regarding our "not winning" in Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan, is the fact that our troops in those wars were severely handicapped having to "fight" under the "Rules of Engagement." Those highly restrictive "Rules of Engagement" came from various Presidents/Commanders In Chief, State Departments, and sanctimonious politicians. They told our generals and admirals, "Go over there and fight ... but you can't, you can't , you can't, you can't, you can't ..........................."
Lincoln's "Rules of Engagement" to Grant, Sherman, etc., were, "Go kill the enemy, win this war, and get it over with, whatever it takes."
Were there to have been a bunch of Southern ragtag guerilla bands operating in the northern border States, Lincoln's "Rules of Engagement" would have been the same. "Go kill the enemy, win this war, and get it over with, whatever it takes."
Onerous, restrictive "Rules of Engagement" don't win wars.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
The South had most of the experienced officers, and most capable soldiers, but lacking a strong industrial base, they absolutely needed to win the war quickly. Since they fiddled around too much at the start, it quickly became a hopeless cause. It should have gone only one way after Bull Run, leading to a quick forced peace with Lincoln. Having issued too many general ranks based on favors, they didn't have the battlefield leadership to accomplish that early on. Eventually, of course, they put Lee in charge, but by then it was too late. The North had already gotten their industrial base into action, as well as an unlimited flow if immigrants for immediate induction into the Union Army in exchange for citizenship.
Those are some good points. Maybe the opposite of guerrilla war and a large army running roughshod through DC and the North would have been most effective.
Fighting a conventional war while mostly just trying to hold the South against an aggressor seems to me to have been the worst strategy as it turned into a war of attrition that the South couldn’t win.
What’s hard for me to understand is given a sizable confederate army and there commitment to there way of life. It seems to me that in some way shape or form they should have been able to make life miserable enough on the North that the North would have dropped the slavery issue and lose interest in the war as they had nothing to gain.
Most people who know the least little about the issue know that the slave trade was huge in southern states like Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island......
The cotton gin and the steam engine doomed the South, the first by making cotton an economically viable fabric, the second by powering English textile mills, cotton being suited to mechanized looms.
Inexpensive machine-made cotton fabric took the world of previously expensive homespun fabric by storm, and England had the Empire to sell it everywhere, creating their insatiable appetite for American cotton, coincidentally slave-grown. Thanks to British demand, beginning around 1820 in the South the fastest way to riches was your own cotton plantation. Cant grow cotton up North, so that was never an option up there.
Our politicians arise from among our wealthiest men, in the South their leaders were almost without exemption Planter Aristocracy, making decisions for and about cotton. By the time 1860 rolled around, fully 80% of the Southern economy concerned cotton, and one quarter of its population was enslaved, mostly for purposes of its cultivation.
At the start of the war the Confederacy actually tried to strongarm the British Empire into recognizing it as a legitimate government, by actually withholding exports of cotton to virtually its only customer, causing economic turmoil in Britain.
In response the British diversified their sources by introducing cotton cultivation to Egypt and India, depressing cotton prices and dooming the South to a period of post-bellum poverty.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
From what I’ve read most historians believe that the South lacked the industrial centers to win the war despite having better leadership and overall the more committed and talented men. If winning the war was a war of attrition that the South couldn’t win outright. Why didn’t the South fight more of a defensive guerrilla warfare strategy similar to Afghanistan?
It seems if the South had fought more of a resistance war using men such as General Forrest as hardline resistance to run spec ops against the North while also running raids setting fire to towns and fields in the North from Virginia that they could have made life miserable enough on the North to drag it out and break there will at some point. It worked in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and over most of the the British Empire. I think it would have worked for the South. The one thing working against the South would have been the rebel leadership being easy targets due to being obvious fixed target plantation owners but the masses it seems could have blended in as average every day folks just trying to survive while running upsurp wars.
Everything you need to know is in Butler’s speech;
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
I read somewhere From my understanding of Grant he was a mediocre General in the field but realized that the North had the numbers and industrialization so was good with loosing more men in order to grind the South down over time.
Grant a mediocre field commander? Dunno where you would have read that.
Washed out of the Army for drinking and a failure at everything he tried, given a commission almost as a fluke. Once back in the service he proves to be a natural leader of armies.
This poorly dressed borderline alcoholic prone to fits of despair wins a steady string of victories in the West that earn him promotions despite his many detractors. Fortunately for him, Abe Lincoln was his President and not Jeff Davis, else Grant might have remained in obscurity.
But for the fortunate arrival of Buell, Grant’s career might have ended with the Confederate surprise attack at Shiloh but even there he displays a coolness under fire, retrieving a situation that woulda had many generals conceding a defeat.
Grant’s Vicksburg campaign was brilliant, the best in that war. Defying military convention he severs his army from its supplies, lands below Vicksburg and marches East to defeat a Confederate force to his East, and then leaving that shattered force to his rear, turns around to besiege Vicksburg.
Comes East against Lee and a couple of bloody missteps but wars of attrition are by definition bloody, meanwhile unleashing Sherman to run riot in the South.
Grant was a binge drinker. He would go for literally months drinking nothing but when he fell off the wagon, it was a long fall. He wasn't the fall down type of drunk. He'd just sit with a bottle or sleep. Part of his bad press was a hip injury caused when his horse fell on him. He had a performant limp that looked like a drunk staggering. The press often accused him of being drunk when he was completely sober.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Longstreet caught the flack from Gettysburg and wanted a reassignment to the west.Hood begged him on day 2 to do the obvious best thing and he refused which led to the debalicle on day 3.Jackson would have taken hoods advice but then again Jackson would have been in Ewells position on day 1 and there wouldn’t be day 2 or 3 it would have been decided
Lee restructured his army from 2 corps to 3 right before the Gettysburg campaign AP hill and Ewell had been division commanders under Jackson and weren’t used to commanding entire corps but taking orders from Jackson a bad combination and a lot of miscommunication unfolded during the battle
Grant was a binge drinker. He would go for literally months drinking nothing but when he fell off the wagon, it was a long fall. He wasn't the fall down type of drunk. He'd just sit with a bottle or sleep. Part of his bad press was a hip injury caused when his horse fell on him. He had a performant limp that looked like a drunk staggering. The press often accused him of being drunk when he was completely sober.
One of the more stirling testimonials to Grant’s character was the way his staff, who knew the man well, would cover for him during his binges.
And then there’s Lincoln’s famous quote.....
”Well I wish some of you would tell me the brand of whiskey Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals.”
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
Lee wasn’t used to Grants tactics all of the other commanders before grant left after Lee handed them there ass Grant on the other hand continued to flank south towards Richmond and Petersburg stretching Lee’s ranks and supplies
Grant was a binge drinker. He would go for literally months drinking nothing but when he fell off the wagon, it was a long fall. He wasn't the fall down type of drunk. He'd just sit with a bottle or sleep. Part of his bad press was a hip injury caused when his horse fell on him. He had a performant limp that looked like a drunk staggering. The press often accused him of being drunk when he was completely sober.
One of the more stirling testimonials to Grant’s character was the way his staff, who knew the man well, would cover for him during his binges.
And then there’s Lincoln’s famous quote.....
”Well I wish some of you would tell me the brand of whiskey Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals.”
That goes back to that hip injury. He was often accused of being drunk when he wasn't. Most of his military decisions were made when completely sober.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
but then again Jackson would have been in Ewells position on day 1 and there wouldn’t be day 2 or 3 it would have been decided
Maybe. I believe detailed analysis has shown the situation at the end of Day 1 wasn’t so clear cut, in short Ewell not having as many men on hand and the Union positions on Cemetery Ridge already stronger than popularly supposed.
The buck of course stops with Lee and his vague orders toward that issue.
As far as disengaging and slipping around the Union left flank, way easier said than done. On Day 2 the ANV supply train and elements of its army were still strung out over more than thirty miles. To try and disengage would mean snaking the marching column around in close proximity to the main Union Army as well as colliding with large numbers of Union reinforcements rushing up from the south.
Thanks to the absence of Stuart no one in the ANV had any clear idea of where the Union forces were in relation to the area around the battlefield other than those gathering before them on Cemetery Ridge, hence Lee’s that is where those people are and that is where I shall fight them or words to that effect.
Plus Confederate reconnaissance of the field the morning of Day 2 really sucked, even considering the circumstance. Even so, they nearly pulled it off.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
