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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Just like lots of product failures.......
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051 |
sierra 165gr hpbt in .308dia.....can explode in thick air....at the right speed. Any sierra..............
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
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Please, please, please...don't ANYONE say "Match Kings." oops bhtr The man said HUNTING bullets........
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,759
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2001
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This has been very interesting.
One thing I have learned by visiting various bullet factories, and sectioning and shooting various bullets in both test media and animals, is that most cup and core bullets are pretty similar. Jacket thickness and alloy, along with the lead alloy in the core, are all very close, whether we are talking Core-Lokt, Power Point, Sierra GK or PH, Hornady Interlock, etc.
There are exceptions. Some of the roundnose Core-Lokts still have the thicker jacket sidewalls that were originally part of every Core-Lokt, but haven't been seen in the PSP CL's for close to 20 years. The Speer boattails are not Hot-Cors, which use a fairly hard lead alloy, but are swaged from a soft lead alloy, softer than about any other "big game" bullet on the market.
But the rest of the cup-and-cores are pretty much the same bullet. One may have an Interlock ring, another may have hadsthe core dripped in as melted lead, rather than swaged. Other than that there is no vast difference in jacket or core.
Anybody claiming one is vastly superior or inferior to all the rest is, I suspect, coming to that conclusion on the basis of limited experience, perhaps even a sample of one. When impact velocity is moderate (and really big bone is avoided) they all tend to work pretty well.
I have also gone through my hunting notes on hundreds of big game animals taken over the decades (both mine and those that other folks shot when I was there), and found that cup-and-core boattails do not separate core and jacket any more often than square-based bullets. In fact, in my data they separated less often. I suspect that we have been told boattails come apart so often that we have started looking for it....
Nosler Ballistic Tips are designed to open violently. That is why they kill so well, and also why they chew up meat. You cannot have one without the other.
JB
JB, I still have a couple boxes of the older Rem Core-Lokts in 30cal 150gr. My uncle owned a sporting goods/bait shop back in the 70s. These were from his shelves in 1971, note the price: On the boattail subject, I remember Ross Seyfreid reporting boattails loosing the cups easier than the flat bases. Although he explained why (claimed the flat base's cup gripped the core tighter) I never experienced or could understand his analogy. MtnHtr
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,051 |
Please, please, please...don't ANYONE say "Match Kings." I hope no one would be stupid and inhumane [enough] to use a non-hunting bullet to wound game with. B And yet happens everyday!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630 |
5 bucks too much...kidding
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 17,527 |
Just like lots of product failures....... Especially when a company ships a defective product in the first place. I am sure you have noted a lot of bullet failures on those massive 100 pound deer you are shooting.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,843
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,843 |
Your scale must be broke,those critters wouldn't push much past 70lbs
My dog is a member of the "Turd Like Clan"
Covert Trail Cameras are JUNK
3 Time Dinkathon Champion #DinkGOAT
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,134 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,134 Likes: 4 |
There are so many variable is answering something like this and I've by no means used them all on game but one of the most tender I have used was the old Remington Bronze Points. They were meant to open very quickly but I only ever found schrapnel in my deer which is to say I guess, for deer, they worked.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,037
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,037 |
Nosler ballistic tips and anything out a .243.
Your Every Liberal vote promotes Socialism and is an attack on the Second Amendment. You will suffer the consequences.
GOA,Idaho2AIAlliance,AmericanFirearmsAssociation,IdahoTrappersAssociation,FoundationForWildlifeManagement ID and MT.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
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Jeff,
Military stuff...jim +1 Bob
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Jeff: You're so twisted........ Uh, by the way, are we allowed to list more than one? Sorry to stir the pot and disapear! Had a wedding to go to last night. Yes, indeed! LIst 'em all! One poster mentioned the Silvertips. I used one of those in a factory .358 load and it worked great... absolutely flattend a doe a 125 yards. But that's an unusual round; relatively slow and very big around. -jeff
Last edited by Jeff_Olsen; 09/01/07.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I would echo the sentiment that those which are placed poorly are obviously bad ones. I think it's quite predictable that bullets like the Nosler BT would be named in this thread. And sure we all have preferences in what we like a bullet to do to an animal besides, obviously, kill it humanely. But what else is there to say that hasn't already been said by Mule Deer (aka Steals Thunder ), rost495, and others?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Is "Steals Thunder" his native name? :-) That's a good one.
I always tease my wife that her native name would be "Looks Good in Jeans". She likes that.
-jeff
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Actually, even though I don't know him personally, I feel like I do know him more than just anonymously simply because he writes so well and I've always appreciated the stuff he pens for the publishers. Perhaps "Weatherman" would be an even more appropriate handle since I also suspect he "Kills Like Lightning".
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Unfortunately a hole in the lungs is only a 99% guarantee it'll die... Bullet performing still helps a great deal. Having seen a double lung shot fail to kill...Of course animals always amaze me, some flop and some refuse to die.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,949 |
I would say any bullet that is inconsistent would be the worst. If using a solid for penetration or a vmax for vaporization I want it to work within its accepted design parameters.
I would actually lump the original X and original BT into the same place for worst, the X due to hideous accuracy and the early BT for inconsistent terminal performance. Obviously both have taken their lumps and were willing to modify designs to meet the demands of the market. Whether you belong to the "DRT" or "make two holes" school of thought the products on the market will match your expectations.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630 |
Good job on the moose.Nice and clean done that way.
You know what your doing thats for sure.Good job all around Steely.
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