Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics First or Second Focal Plane for Hunting??

It's nice to have choices. I doubt choosing one over the other will matter on 95% of shots taken.

Inside 350-400 yards it doesn't make a lot of difference. Beyond that I prefer FFP. One simple reason-wind. You can dial either FFP or SFP for elevation (distance) because gravity is a constant. Wind is the variable. YMMV

It all depends on the FFP reticle design. Many FFP reticles these days are intended for versatility; well-suited to long shots and capable of handling short-range scenarios, too. The euro take on FFP design was weighted more heavily toward short-range shooting, with a simple duplex-style design. In low light, a small bump in magnification made the reticle easier to see.

I’m preaching to the choir, here, but illumination is secondary to mechanical fidelity, so I’ll be interested to see how the long-term robustness of your BTR Gen 2s compares to that of your LRTSs and SWFAs. Mechanical functionality and reliability is my biggest concern with any newcomer.

As an aside, I wish the BTR was made in Japan instead of China.

For my uses, I like FFP if the reticle is bold enough to be seen well when left on the power I most often hunt with. Some of the scopes that max out around 10-12x still have a fairly useful reticle thickness in lower light when left on 6x. I know there's illumination, but there's not always time for that. If it's "huntable" at something around 6x, I think FFP is a good option for me, even on a hunting scope, as I like having the consistent aiming points in the reticle. I still use SFP scopes as well if just going duplex, but when there are extra aiming points in my SFP scope it needs to have a max power that's moderate so you can leave it set there to allow the aiming point subtension to be right. It's easy to not be at max power with SFP and forget your dope is going to be different.

FFP for me all the way but the scope needs to be high quality and as stated above, the reticle design in the FFP rifle scope is key to functionality. If you have used or even looked through and fiddled with a cheap FFP scope, it will most likely be a complete turnoff, especially at low power in low light and you won't want anything to do with them. The Europeans have gone to the trouble of extra engineering and expense to deliver a high-quality FFP scope to the market for a reason, they work damn good for hunting conditions and professional snipers demand them for their long-distance rifle-to-person communication business.

SFP is like a speedometer that's only accurate in 4th gear at 2000 RPM. If that's something you're interested in you'll love it.

For hunting what would be my question? I have both and think that my FFP 1.5-6x42 Zeiss Diavari is terrific on my whitetail bolt action where my shots can come at first or last light and that bold appearing reticle really stands out. With my higher magnification FFP 2.5-10x42 Swarovski on my western rifle, that higher magnification FFP looks like a fence post at anything much over 6x and I don't like it as much. On my .22 and varmint rifle, I like the second plane reticle for a finer appearing reticle at higher magnification.

I couldn't see my Leupold SFP 2.5-8x36 Duplex crosshair on a deer at first light one over cast morning and that made me get a SFP heavy Duplex 1.5-5x20 on my walking around M99. There is no losing that heavy crosshair for a fast shot, but it sucks as a long range or target scope crosshair. So I guess the answer is it all depends on what and how you are hunting.

'it,

Do it this way. Cite what scope(s) you are using now and the feature set(s) which makes the warm/fuzzy to you. From there,one can extrapolate and hell...knowing me,I likely have fhuqking pictures. Hint.(grin)



Just sayin'....................





Pap',

I don't see how a guy gets hurt,just pulling the trigger on The OEM Carbon Queen,especially keeping contour in mind. That being said,there's NO way to "explain" not going S/S. Hint..................





'tailer,

Range is moot,but a good reticle and illumination ain't. Hint.................





Jordan,

I've yet to drive a scope that was "too tough" yet,but am still purchasing. Hint.(grin)

If there's a rash of BTR Gen 2 crashes in the larder,that will make things EASY. My LRHSi G2 4.5-18x was a piece of fhuqking schit,from first shot to last and that aboard my heaviest 6BR,which is VERY impressive "performance". My LRTSi's and LRST's have been simply fhuqking exceptional. Just ordered another DMR II yesterday,due those track records. Hint.



Hell...I wish it was all made in Kansas,but that ain't reality and them days is over(forever). Hint.......................







'ro,

I tote all my LRTS/I's on 6x,as the BTR Gen 2's. I also just "happen" to leave all my 1-6x HD MQ's on 6x too. That's weird. Hint. LAUGHING!................





'fall,

Zeiss has never made a Boolit Steering device mechanically worth a fhuqk. Nor has Swaro. The Reupolds cited are exceptionally schitty,in all regards(glass and mechanics).Hint.

Which 22's are you trying to cite and which glass there? I saw a 22LR once. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Yep. Some are even designed for close-range and low light. Case in point, I have a Trijicon Accupower 1-8x FFP MRAD that’s an exceptionally good design for close-to-mid range shooting, that’s essentially a red dot sight at 1x, and has visible half MRAD hash marks at 8x.

I would never use one except for a designated long range rifle. I have one and won’t get another.

Sorry to be unclear - won’t buy another FFP scope.

If you want a FFP the Bushy Elite from Doug (below) is a good one. I run a Bushy Elite.

Jordan,

Flipside being,some are outright pieces of fhuqking schit and the Optika 1-6's glaringly so. Done right,it's like "cheating" however. Hint.................(grin)




'alus,

Which scope in particular(Make/Model) and what were the issues? Hint.

As to the DMR II deal...I can like said glass. The 34mm tube is a touch off the beaten path,but easily contended. Hint.




I ordered another,yesterday. Hint.



Just sayin'.................








Aired out a "suspect" 4.5-18x LRHSi G2,earlier today and flogged on it goodly. A pard had it mounted on his rifle and had "issues",but it always sounded like an assembly issue to me,as he tried to explain WTF over the phone. Anyhoo...I drug it home from work and set it aboard The BMFOTP(Baddest Mother Fhuqker On The Planet),to Test Drive. Hint.

Was Forming Cases and flailed on the erector and zoom selector both,between every shot. I was "between" clicks on windage,but rolled it,as it's the only move. Hint.





It tracked rather well and nothing is suspect,other than perhaps my shooting,ala G2 reticle,for which I obviously have ZERO fhuqking love. It happily tracked/repeated and kept pouring 3500+ fps V-Max form Loads into like holes,like it do. There's at least (10) pokes in the zero confirmation cluster. Hint.



There was some wind and the dust was again flying,but there's nothing mechanical to cuss,in said optical specimen. Hint.




While a lit G2 obviously trumps a non-lit version of same,they are neither war or fuzzy to me. Shot video and sent pics to pard and it mighta' hurt his heart a smidge,that mechanics were intact. Long story short,he cain't get warm or fuzzy,so he gave me a number and I'll hand him a check. Hint...................(grin)








The BTR Gen2 '12x FFP is a fhuqking KILLER. Should add,lotsa erector to soak up the 'Horn's 40 MoMo's. Hint.................

Damn, folks costin me money here.

Agree on the G2 though. Leave that sucker in the bush.

Thanks for the heads up though on the Athlon.

FFP all the way for me, though I pretty much only have fixed powers anymore.

Maybe one day I will get drunk and order a Tangent Theta 3-15X50 or 5-25X56.

Oh, yeah. Some FFP reticles were definitely designed by people that neither shoot nor hunt with said reticles.

No issues whatsoever with my Bushy LRHSi. For long range use, it's a gem. The optics are excellent, adjustments have not faltered, and eye relief is amazingly good. For a general purpose rifle, FFP reticles aren't my choice because they are too small and finicky at low power. Overall I cannot complain about this glass though, and it was a steal at a price similar to the one Doug is posting about now. I don't think one could equal it optically for twice the price ... or more. I know the eye relief provided is rare and fantastic. As this is, or was, a FFP post, I was speaking only about FFPs in general.

Sucks that my beloved G-12 puked,as the only thing I have left is a herd of 1D/1Ds Series Pro bodies and they're too tall to ride a comb and center an ocular,for reticle pics. Hint.

I shoot smaller dots on my fhuqking pistols! Hint. LAUGHING!






On the brightside,the ocular is big enough,that they don't even make caps for it. Hint. LAUGHING!




That 1-6x MQ FFP,is a WICKED bitch however. Hint....................

That must be the Boomer Dot reticle.