|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330 |
To add to my last post. The diopter problems and the Beta (maybe even a little below Beta) glass eliminate the Sig BDX3000 from field use for me. Even though the firmware/software implementation is light years ahead of the Leica. On the other hand, the Alpha level optics and the workable ballistics solutions, infuriating U/I notwithstanding, on the Leica do make them usable on serious hunts.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21 |
To add to my last post. The diopter problems and the Beta (maybe even a little below Beta) glass eliminate the Sig BDX3000 from field use for me. Even though the firmware/software implementation is light years ahead of the Leica. On the other hand, the Alpha level optics and the workable ballistics solutions, infuriating U/I notwithstanding, on the Leica do make them usable on serious hunts. Thanks LJB, couldn't agree more, and that is the reason I'm considering Leica. I spend lots of time glassing with a tripod mounted bino, and the Geovid glass will easily allow me to do that.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 137
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 137 |
how leica compare to swaro el range ?
Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330 |
To add to my last post. The diopter problems and the Beta (maybe even a little below Beta) glass eliminate the Sig BDX3000 from field use for me. Even though the firmware/software implementation is light years ahead of the Leica. On the other hand, the Alpha level optics and the workable ballistics solutions, infuriating U/I notwithstanding, on the Leica do make them usable on serious hunts. Thanks LJB, couldn't agree more, and that is the reason I'm considering Leica. I spend lots of time glassing with a tripod mounted bino, and the Geovid glass will easily allow me to do that. The Leica's are a pleasure the look through, that's for sure. They would do just fine on a tripod for extended glassing sessions. For that matter, they'd be great for prairie dog or rock chuck shoots when paired with the Kestrel Elite. BTW, looks like the bluetooth connectivity issues with the 3200,com and Kestrel have been fixed with the latest Kestrel firmware. I say "looks like" because I've only had one serious range session with the two paired, but I was pleasantly surprised they (both the Kestrel and the 3200.com) worked so well. The 3200.com battery went kaput during the session so I suspect the bluetooth/firmware load is significant. Which, if true, means the unit bluetooth would have to be turned on/off in the field to conserve battery power and that brings the user back to the clunky U/I. Again, a showstopper for serious field use (mule deer, elk, and what not). To be fair to Leica though, it does appear the initial bluetooth issue I griped about was fixed on the Kestrel side. I don't have the Kestrel in front of me right now so I can't quote the firmware revision needed. The Leica 3200.com could be a great piece of kit, but it would take a COMPLETE app/firmware rewrite to make it so. It is terrible. Based on my past dealings with German optics companies, and careful to be culturally respectful, the hard part of getting any improvement to happen is convincing them they have a problem in the first place.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21 |
You're probably right about the German mentality. It only took them forever to adopt a competitive warranty, and upgrade their previously pathetic customer service. I've actually emailed them back and forth a few times lately and they've been very responsive.
I'm not planning to use a Kestrel no matter which unit I wind up with.
Last edited by JGRaider; 10/02/21.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,998 Likes: 8 |
You're probably right about the German mentality. It only took them forever to adopt a competitive warranty, and upgrade their previously pathetic customer service. I've actually emailed them back and forth a few times lately and they've been very responsive.
I'm not planning to use a Kestrel no matter which unit I wind up with. S&B has always had great customer service according to my experience with them. They even responded to a post about a turret cap marked in the wrong direction. They monitor quality and customer service Leica not so much.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,610 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,610 Likes: 8 |
how leica compare to swaro el range ? Optical twins IMO/IME. I had both at the same time. Actually, I also owned the original Zeiss Victory Range 8x45's at the same time as well. First off, I didn't/haven't used any of the "ballistic" features on any of the Binoculars/LRF combo's as I change rifles pretty regularly and I don't want to have to be messing around w/getting the proper program into the binoc. I keep a chart in the lens cap and/or on the stock somewhere for drop/drift. Leica/Swaro comparison, not scientific, just my opinions: They're optical equals. HD-B 2200 vs. EL-Range both in 8x42, prior to the newest version Swaro that does the GPS pinning thing. I like the smaller target designator on the Leica better. The Leica displays the range significantly faster than the Swaro. The Swaro will reliably range further. Here's the reason I kept the Swaro and sold the HD-B and haven't bought any others: Swaro has a setting that displays 2 ranges at the same time. Actual range and angle compensated range. You dial the short one and hold wind for the long one. Assuming one has the proper chart on board the rifle it doesn't matter what rifle you have in hand.
I can walk on water.......................but I do stagger a bit on alcohol.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 137
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 137 |
Would you say I have a plethora of pinatas?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229 |
Enjoying my Leica HD-B 2200 for ground squirrel hunting. Optics are great. Might upgrade to 3200 when price is right
NRA lifetime member
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21 |
Got a great deal on the 3200's so I'm gonna try them out. Didn't hurt that they now qualify for Leica's 10 yr passport warranty. Time will tell, as usual, as I'm pretty picky about my gear and especially optics.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3 |
I LOVE my Geovids! Bought my HD-B's some 5-6 yrs back. Used them to take 1 shot kills on elk at 810, 820 and 950, using only the dope they gave me. I shoot LR year round in NRL and PRS and now NRL Hunter matches, so please no judging. Several months back I upgraded to the 3200.com's. LOVE them....mostly! The 3200's are much much "option" rich. I don't need them to range at 5000, 4000, 3200 or even 2000 yds. I'm not an ELR shooter; no allure to me though am likely the 1st to hit the 1 mile milk jug. It does take a bit of understanding and practice to be proficient with the 3200's. Once I input the basic ballistic data into the phone app and bluetooth the data to the 3200's, I pretty much keep them in "off" mode. That is where it will use just the existing ballistic data and weather input from the 3200's for dope out to 1005 yds; dope only....no wind data. Occasionally, I can and do bluetooth/tether them with my Kestrel 5700 Elite. When that happens the on board ballistic data in the 3200 is negated and the Kestrel data is the "go to" data; to include wind. The "mostly" statement starts here. 1) Because of the 3200's magnesium/carbon construction the bluetooth signal is limited to about 2-1/2 to 3 ft. To help with that issue I carry the Geovids on my chest in a Badlands case. On the side of the case I attach a SAP (Short Action Precision) Kydex Kestrel Holster to the side of the Badlands case and keep the Kestrel in that holster. Pull it out, use it and put it back. The two will always stay within the 2-1/2' to 3' bluetooth limit. https://www.shortactionprecision.com/collections/d-o-p-e-tools/products/sap-kydex-kestrel-holder2) The other issue depends; it's an issue or not, on how you look at it. The bluetooth connection does not stay connected for more than about 5 minutes if the 3200's are not kept on or turned on before the 5 minutes expires. This is a battery saving feature, which i'm sure many will appreciate. The Geovids use a CR2 battery; roughly $4-5 each. Me, I could care less if I burn a battery each day I hunt or shoot in an NRL Hunter match. It's the cost of having fun!!! To reconnect the two devices I have to turn the 3200 on, go through the connection process (about a 20-30 second process). To some, not an issue. When i'm on the 4 minute NRL Hunter, or actual hunting, clock, it seems like an eternity. Leica is aware of this and hopefully, the German engineers will someday add another feature; :auto bluetooth disconnection or constant connection" feature. I'm sure i'll keep using the 3200's for the next 5-6 yrs and upgrade to the newest and more useful model around that time.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229 |
Thanks for the write up. Bluetooth does eat battery. How long does the CR2 battery last if BT is used constantly as in ground squirrel hunting? Maybe next version can use a bigger battery such as CR123. 2) The other issue depends; it's an issue or not, on how you look at it. The bluetooth connection does not stay connected for more than about 5 minutes if the 3200's are not kept on or turned on before the 5 minutes expires. This is a battery saving feature, which i'm sure many will appreciate. The Geovids use a CR2 battery; roughly $4-5 each. Me, I could care less if I burn a battery each day I hunt or shoot in an NRL Hunter match. It's the cost of having fun!!! To reconnect the two devices I have to turn the 3200 on, go through the connection process (about a 20-30 second process). To some, not an issue. When i'm on the 4 minute NRL Hunter, or actual hunting, clock, it seems like an eternity. Leica is aware of this and hopefully, the German engineers will someday add another feature; :auto bluetooth disconnection or constant connection" feature.
Last edited by KevinLA; 10/11/21.
NRA lifetime member
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3 |
Kevin,
Have yet to burn out a CR2 except through normal usage, not Bluetooth. In short.....I don't know.
Alan
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 229 |
Good to know, Thanks. Might need to get a pair of HD-B 3200 myself to do the testing
NRA lifetime member
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3 |
Figured i'd report back on what I think is a pretty cool feature of the 3200. com's. While out hunting during our Utah General deer season (closes tomorrow), I had two rifles at the ready. My primary is a custom pre '64 M70 in 9.3x62 with a 250 gr TTSX running 2550 fps. On top is a VX3 1.75-6x32 with a custom CDS turret on top. I can take a respectable shot out to 590 yds, spinning the turret. Drop is close to any common 308 Win running a 165/8 spt style bullet but with a lot more umph, when the 250 TTSX arrives. I had the 3200.com's set in EHR mode where it initially gives the exact, line of sight, yardage. After a few seconds, it gives an adjusted yardage based on angle.
The other rifle is my newly built light weight 300 Win Mag with the new Barnes 208 gr LRX, running 2900 fps; suppressed. This is a true 1200 yd capable rifle/load. It has a NF NXS Compact 2.5-10x42 with a Velocity 600 reticle. The 3200.com, when quickly modified from EHR to 1/4 moa dial up data will give me exact dope, taking into account temp, baro pressure, angle and exact bullet fps/bc will give me precise dope to 1006 yds. Anything further and I have to change the internal mode and bluetooth it to my Kestrel 5700 Elite.
So, even though the 208 LRX data is loaded in the internal memory when I change the mode to EHR it's non caliber/bullet specific. It takes into account the angle and adjusts the yardage one holds for.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,309 Likes: 21 |
Thanks for the update GSSP. I'm fiddling around with mine trying to make sure I know what I'm doing with it when I start hunting next weekend. You were right though, to someone ignorant on the subject, initially the Leica setup and app/ballistic interface is a PITA. I think I've got it figured out now though. One thing I will say is that the laser is perfectly aligned with the "reticle" in my unit, something that neither the Fury or Sig3000 would do, as they were both badly aligned. The 3200 is definitely a high quality unit for sure.
Question: When you change the battery, do you have to go back and set up everything again, or will it just pick up where you left off?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3 |
I recently changed my battery before my hunting season and lost nothing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 330 |
The 3200.com, when quickly modified from EHR to 1/4 moa dial up data will give me exact dope, taking into account temp, baro pressure, angle and exact bullet fps/bc will give me precise dope to 1006 yds. Interesting. How did you verify this? Awesome if true, but I'm skeptical because my tests indicate otherwise. Hunting in Utah this last September set the 3200.com ballistic mode to local altitude 8000 ft (measured DA was 10500 ft) and it worked fine out to about 600 yards when compared to the Kestrel. Returned home at 700 ft elevation (DA about 1200 ft), didn't change the 3200.com profile because IF it measures temp/pressure AND uses these measurements in the ballistics solution then the 3200.com should match the Kestrel out to 600 yards. I don't remember the exact difference, but the 3200.com solution at 700 ft did not match the Kestrel.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,302 Likes: 3 |
LBJ,
How do I verify this? I use a combination of comparing my beloved "Shooter" app, the 3200.com dope and the Kestrel dope. Initially, I input all the data I can, into all 3 devices, while at the range, zeroing the rifle at 200 yds while shooting over my Labradar. I then shoot onto paper, 5-shot groups, at 1000 yds. In the past i've trued my velocity to match the moa adjustments to get solid center hits. This last time, instead, I adjusted my BC to get solid center hits. I needed to move my published BC of G1 .633 to .615 (.5 moa). I then adjusted the BC in the Shooter app, 3200.com and Kestrel, all to .615. Just now, in the dark I can range the hill behind my house at various distances out to sub 1000 yds. In spot I can consistently get 874/5 yds. I keep doing this using just the 3200.com's, (18.3 moa), Shooter (18.3 moa) and Kestrel (18.6 moa). That's a 2.6" difference at 874/5 yds.
Is this what you're inquiring about?
Alan
|
|
|
|
528 members (160user, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 1lessdog, 117LBS, 1234, 54 invisible),
2,906
guests, and
1,195
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,796
Posts18,536,480
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|