Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Gun shy dog?

I cured a vizsla from being gun shy.


start young age 3 to 5 months ( based on personality drive of puppy) after basic obedience training. I start with a pellet rifle empty of course during my retrieval training and give food rewards every successful retrieve. Throw the dummy in air , shoot pellet rifle, give fetch command. Ill introduce frozen quail, pheasant, hun, grouse, duck carcasses in retrieves to further interest dog. I do that for a few weeks . Then introduce 22 rifle. I stand at least 30 yds from dog, throw dummy, frozen bird carcass for a few weeks shooting every time , then a 20 gauge shotgun from about 50 yds. I use someone to hold dog. I slowly move closer to dog over a few weeks. Ill run two shooters once dog is comfortable. Ive seen dogs freaked out by multiple shooters after being gun trained with one gun.

Any set backs I go to step one. Ill then introduce live hobbled birds in retrieve, and shooting with shotgun. After I get prey drive established with live birds( no retrievals)

Make it fun , short sessions. Any hesitation take a few days break and start from beginning depending on dog's disposition.I think incorporating, fun, excitement into foundation of gun training is important, at least based on my experience.

Ill use a shock collar on vibrate in training if dog is distracted or stubborn.

Lots of good ideas. I put a bb gun in by her food and water bowl. She noticed it at first but has adjusted. I took her out on the youth hunt with my 9 year old and she stayed ahead of us and ran around but we didn't get into any birds.

Last week I took her out to the WMA to hunt. She ran around a bit but stayed pretty close to me. I had 1 long shot at a bird that someone nearby kicked up and it flew behind me pretty far out. I took a shot just to see what she would do. She didn't run off but did stay in real close to me or just behind me after that. She looked a little confused but I just played up the excitement.

I think if I can get her on some birds and get her excited about it she'll be ok. I grabbed the shotgun today and put it in the truck and she wanted to go with. I'm going to take her out tomorrow and hopefully get her on some birds. I think there's hope for her I just need to get her on birds and get her excited. She's very smart and comes from good hunting parents and great lines.

Her hips check out so we are going to do some more testing before we decide whether to fix her or not. I met a field trials judge that really wants me to bread her to a stud he knows that's a state champ. He was just going off her looks though he liked her fur texture and coloration along with her build. He said she has the classic orangish Grey and liver color or something like that. If I can get her fired up about hunting we may breed her in a few months at her next heat. If she's not hunting yet I may wait or just get her fixed. I'm not sure what to do but it wouldn't seem right to breed a hunting breed if she's not hunting.

She is a smart and tenacious dog I just haven't got her on the birds mostly do to my health problems and her extreme car sickness she went through year 1.

Bb

Sounds like a good start.

We went out today. Lots of other hunters nearby and several were getting shots. She stayed right with me. She looked a little nervous and stayed in too close right under my feet but never ran off even with shooting nearby.

At the end her and my boy were in the truck and I got out to quickly check a little patch. A rooster got up way out there but I was loaded with a heavy reload of Longshot and 1.5 ounces of #5 so I gave it a huge lead and dropped it. My dog wouldn't go look for it so I went and got a nearby friend and his springers came and found it. It was still alive so I took it to my dog and she showed no interest in it. I set it down and it took off running and she didn't even chase. We let the springers go get it and I then rung its neck. My dog showed little interest when dead.

We got home and I hid the bird in the garage. I got some jerky out and told my dog to find the bird. She looked around a bit and then found it and pointed. She got jerky and lots of good feedback. We tried it again later and set the bird on top of the chest freezer. She used her nose and found it. I have a large 4 car garage so I later drug it along the ground to a whole different part of the garage. She went in and looked on the freezer where it was and then came back to me. I sent her back out and she sniffed around until she crossed the drag trail. As soon as she crossed it she picked up the scent and followed it all the way to the bird. More jerky and lots of good girls.

I hope I can get her as interested in birds as she is jerky. The wife and kids have her domesticated from walking her but not letting her chase the neighbors cats and stuff. My wife does let her range out ahead a ways and explore around but she doesn't seem to go full killer on birdy. I'm taking her with some other dogs that are birds hoping she'll pick it up. She's such a house dog she just likes laying around on pillows and sitting in the hot tub. She wants to do whatever the kids do from jumping on the trampoline to riding on the 4 wheeler. She gets pissed if she doesn't get her turn or I don't let her in the hot tub. She'll steal my towel and run it clear out the back yard and drop it in the dirt. She's smart but she thinks she's human not a bird dog.

Bb

maybe she's right.......

The breeder we bought her from wouldn't sell her unless we agreed to let her in the house and make her part of the family. He said griffons don't do well locked outside in kennels and that they need to be in the house and have lots of interaction. She sleeps inside in her crate and house trained very easily early. She has a bell she rings with her paw when she wants to go out. I'm afraid she's too spoiled.

The kids have spent all evening hiding pheasants in the garage and then having her find them. She's found them all pretty quickly even up on shelves and hidden under things. Her nose works but she'll just find them and point them she won't pick them up. She'll put her nose to the ground if you drag the birds to the new spot and uses her nose up in the wind if you carry the birds to the hiding spot.

I'm not much for pheasant legs so I boned them out for her. She wasn't interested in it raw so I fried them up quickly and now she likes them. I'm hoping she connects the dots where the meat comes from. I'm ashamed that I've raised a city dog that thinks meat comes in plastic from Costco. I think her getting in trouble for chasing the neighbors cats has her a bit shy too.

Bb

Hope you're able to get her over the hump but I wouldn't let her even be near a 22lr until she's absolutely bird crazy. See if you can find someone with homing pigeons that will just let you release birds over and over for her to smell and chase. If possible, I'd start that in your yard where she's already comfortable. The pointing will come too but that bird-crazy prey drive is key at this point IMO. When she's bird-crazy, show her a pellet gun and release some birds. If she's still bouncing off the walls to get to the birds, I'd shoot some with the pellet rifle and let her get them. If she shows any hesitation at any point, go back to just birds.

I disagree with you saying she's too spoiled. My dog lives inside, sleeps on the couch, gets lots of toys and treats, pretty much goes everywhere with me and she is bat$hit crazy for birds and hunting. When she sees the gun come out she goes nuts with excitement. Some dogs just don't have a strong natural drive for birds, your's may be one of them. You might be able to get her on track but I would suggest you find a good trainer and get some professional help. Since you're in Idaho, I'd suggest you call Bob Farris at Cedarwood Gundogs and have a chat. If he isn't able to help you, he could likely point you to someone that can.

Pups go through stages of development when they're more likely to have a fear of something ingrained in them. If you give them a shock it can make them shy of whatever it was. It can happen to any pup. This is why I pretty much let a pup be a pup the first nine months. I make sure there is no gunfire near the pup the first nine months.

If yours was older than that at the time, and it sounds like it was, then you've just got a cull through no fault of your own. They don't all work out. To make a breed culling must be done and continued as necessary. Considering what breeders charge for bird pups, they ought to provide another. That's not how it works, usually, which is why 99% of bird breed pups are grossly overpriced and there are plenty of people with useless furbabies at home.

Now, practically speaking, nobody ever culls them anymore. That's how you got a dog that was not genetically predisposed to love the report of a shotgun. The least you can do is cull the reproductive system. That leaves you trying force the dog it to do a job it doesn't want to do. There are lots of methods and they rarely work. What it comes down to is whether the dog wants the bird enough to tolerate the gunfire. If you can get it addicted to having feathers in its mouth it may tolerate the painful scary noise.

Good luck and please don't let a cull reproduce. And don't be shy letting people know where the cull came from if they won't make it right.

This.

Fear is a buried emotion for the obsessed. Get her obsessed with birds and then start firing a blank pistol every time she gets into birds. Gunfire means birds and your dog should love birds.

Your story reminds me of the first Drent I imported. Here I was with my high dollar imported dog, and sent her off to a local trainer. Good man that he is, he worked with her, to the point of putting her IN the quail pen with the birds, just to light the fire: bupkiss. Tim finally admitted defeat and asked me to come pick her up. I was crestfallen.

So I went hunting, and she came along for the walk. She was two and a half when we went up into Kelly Canyon and I came across a treed ruffed grouse. With a little bit of luck, the shot brained the bird and it did the flopping around on the ground thing for about a minute. THAT was IT. The switch flipped, at that moment. Birds were the thing.

Three years later, I hunted 73 days that year, including a trip to North Dakota, and we did not lose a single bird that hit the ground. One tracking job in ND was nearly a two mile track. She dug one rooster out of a hole in the ground. She was an absolute bird recovery machine. Not much on retrieving, but she’d show you where the bird was......

All that to say: what you see now could very well change. Dogs respond to social cues, and they mature at different rates. Don’t count her out just because she’s not ready this season. Talk to people with experience hunting the breed, and ask about what to expect at what age. Good luck.

Thinking about it some more, this is probably the best bet......

Have a guy stand 200 feet away with a shotgun…

Take a dummy with a pheasant wing, or better yet a dead quail or pheasant and throw it up in the air… have the guy with the shotgun shoot as the bird reaches it’s highest point. This associates a bird dying with a shotgun blast but WAY, WAY far away…

Do this 3-5 times, and then move up 20 or so feet… do it 3 more times…. And move UP .. BUT watch the dog to see if it bothers them or not.

Move up and repeat
Move up and repeat…. And so on

By the time you are next to the guy you will have shot 20 or so rounds…. Every time the dog seems hesitant slow down, and maybe even back up.

Your job is to get them to associate the blast with a falling bird….

This method if from John Han’s “perfect start” clinic…. And it really works well.

That's an excellent training series and I would include some time beforehand just getting the dog bird crazy without a gun but this dog is well down the road from a perfect start. This is serious damage control at this point.

Lots of birds, no gunfire. Birds flying, birds flapping, birds running.
Until the dog is totally nuts for birds, no gunfire. Then only when it is chasing a flapping runner. It might not happen.
Good luck, I have only seen one gunshy dog recover, and it was never the bird dog my buddy hoped to have.

Join your local navhda chapter, get a proven bloodline, never have this problem again.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^. Birds, Birds Birds.... no shooting until it's hunting season and only when he has a snoot full of bird.

I agree and would add that bored dogs (and I only speak from Labrador experience) can also tend to nest away from load reports/fireworks, etc.

The process we are used to from our first breeder years ago was nothing more than a cap gun 50 yards away. Half a dozen shots in a training field, put the dog up and take him home. Repeat a couple days later. Repeat and then a bit closer and closer. Then the big cap gun, back at the distance, then closer - takes half a dozen weeks. Then the starter pistol.

Get them used to it and being in the field field field. Birds are not required but if you can get a permit for training birds off season (we can - but of course have to kill first) that's really really good too. I have to check the rules as we are going to start training our two new Labs - permit was inexpensive and buy one or two aviary ducks, wring the neck and train with them after the shot(s).

Then once the dogs don't really care 20 feet away from a starter pistol keep them around low base trap. The key is to let the dogs have fun and anticipate having fun - they will quickly associate and acclimate to the sound of shot.

All that said, I have seen dogs ruined by noob [bleep] with high powered rifles. There is such a thing as an event. Don't do that. Don't ever be around that.

For those getting pups, take em to the gun range early and often. Move em in on the guns slowly, if they need that.

Here's my yella dog taking in some 5 stand at age 11 weeks or so. He didn't care. Would sit right next to the shotgun and watch the clays.

He's as good a retriever as you'd ever want. He runs to gun fire, not away.

yep. lots of birds get the prey drive built up. let your dog kill the birds

Keep guns away from dog for at least 3 months. I start gun training with a pellet gun at least 50 feet away and use food rewards.

Then combine gun training with live birds if dog is ready. slowly work up with 22 blanks or shotgun training rounds at a distance from dog. go slow.

This is the obvious answer. You're spending lots of time and dollars on a 20 month old dog that should be a bird machine by now. Be prepared for the unpleasant answer that the pro may give. Also, realize that you may need to replace the dog. Having another dog to hunt is not a bad plan anyway, and neither is finding a new home for one that doesn't meet your needs.