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Also going to the Brown Precision stock that was mentioned should take out some weight without having to change out what is probably a perfectly good factory barrel. Definately. Also taking another 20lbs off me wouldn't hurt either I dropped 20 before this hunt. Another 20 would get me down near my college football playing weight (way back in the olden days of the late 70s)
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I would leave the 30-06 a 30-06 and just go kill elk. If the max range you are shooting is under 500 yards, you already have a fantastic elk cartridge.
You ought to look up the thread "deceased by Scenar" and see just how effective the 155 Scenars, when fired out of .308s and 30-06s are.
A 155 Scenar at 2900-3000 fps would certainly be plenty.
In spite of what neophytes and flatlanders say and think, you don't need cartridges that often get used for African dangerous game just to shoot an elk. The are really not that hard to kill in spite of BS spouted.
I will check that thread out. I kiled my first elk with a .308 pushing 180 grain Nosler Partitions. He was dead as can be 75 yards away. My issue was no exit wound, no snow and elk tracks everywhere. Blowdown was so thick I heard him fall to the ground with a loud thud and saw which way he ran. He was only 70 yards away and it still took me 30 minutes to find him. I was kind of panicing until I did. Bullet went through both lungs, no shoulder hit, just lungs and balled up against the far hide. Just a trickle of blood from the entrance wound. I decided I wanted full penetration after that and grabbed the .300 WBY, used it all over the west and two plains games hunts in RSA and Namibia and never looked back...until this year. I realized that I was carrying way to much gun and scope (and binoculars and cloths and body fat) than i needed in that blown down timber.
Last edited by Termin8r; 10/06/21.
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Ya, leave it a 30-06, load up 200 gr Nosler Partitions, or go to one of the terrific "unleaded" bullets like the Barnes TTSX, Nosler E-Tip, Hornady GMX... something along those lines and probably in 165 - 180 grains with the "mono metal" bullets. Those things penetrate superbly.
But if you just want a bigger bore rifle there's nothing wrong with that. I'd lean towards the 35 Whelen or 338-06, though the 9.3x62 is certainly tempting.
Regards, Guy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I would leave the 30-06 a 30-06 and just go kill elk. If the max range you are shooting is under 500 yards, you already have a fantastic elk cartridge.
You ought to look up the thread "deceased by Scenar" and see just how effective the 155 Scenars, when fired out of .308s and 30-06s are.
A 155 Scenar at 2900-3000 fps would certainly be plenty.
In spite of what neophytes and flatlanders say and think, you don't need cartridges that often get used for African dangerous game just to shoot an elk. The are really not that hard to kill in spite of BS spouted.
I will check that thread out. I kiled my first elk with a .308 pushing 180 grain Nosler Partitions. He was dead as can be 75 yards away. My issue was no exit wound, no snow and elk tracks everywhere. Blowdown was so think I heard him fall to the ground with a loud thud and saw which way he ran. He was only 70 yards away and it still took me 30 minutes to find him. I was kind of panicing until I did. Bullet went through both lungs, no shoulder hit, just lungs and balled up against the far hide. Just a trickle of blood from the entrance wound. I decided I wanted full penetration after that and grabbed the .300 WBY, used it all over the west and two plains games hunts in RSA and Namibia and never looked back...until this year. I realized that I was carrying way to much gun and scope (and binoculars and cloths and body fat) than i needed in that blown down timber. The 300wby is an excellent cartridge. One of my favorites. However, like I said earlier, you should try a 200gr partition in that 30-06. It will dig every bit as much at that 300wby will. Even at sedate speeds of 2,600fps. It works well in timber areas. My last elk that I shot with the 30-06 and 200gr partition fell in those exact circumstances. As with most of my elk killed, he did not move much after the hit. I can see your concerns after using your 308 and the 180. The same thing happened with a bud of mine using his "trusty" 308w and a new bullet he was trying (178gr ELDX). At least you were able to find your elk, he was not so lucky.. Anyway, you want a bullet that's going to penetrate very deeply and do so with minimal bloodshot meat, try the 200gr partition one of these days. Try one in your 300wby if you have to. Performance will be similar either way. Now, if you are just looking to have something odd and unusual, go for it. The cartridges you mention do not have any advantage over the old 30-06, but they are cool nonetheless...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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load up some 200 grain partitions or 220 grain RN in the 06 and go kill an elk that walks
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Yea…the simplicity of keeping it as a 30-06, dropping it in a lighter stock and running heavy bullets has a lot going for it
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I would highly recommend the 9.3x62. Mine has very low recoil and is very accurate.
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Another vote for the 9.3x62 although I also like my 338-06. I have both and there is much more factory ammunition available for the 9.3x62.. And it is a very capable and versatile cartridge. My problem is I like them all.
Its not always easy to do the right thing, But it is always the right thing to do.
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If you rebarrel it and keep it a 30-06 I’d set it up with the Serengeti reamer and run 200gr bullets. Or a 300 Sherman would be very fun!
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Al Siegrist is a Michigan gunsmith who rebores rifle barrels. You'll likely save some money on shipping that you can put towards buying .366" bullets and new brass.
Siegrist Gun Shop Al Siegrist 8752 Turtle Rd. Whittemore, Mi. 48770 989-873-3929
Medics bury their mistakes..
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Campfire 'Bwana
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So I just got back from an elk hunt in Wyoming where I carried my old standby, a .300 Wby 24" barrel with 3x18 Leupold VX-6HD. I have killed elk in 4 states and about 20 head of African Plains game with it and love the gun. I practice regularly out to 450 yards (as far as I can get where I can practice here in Michigan. I took a pretty good 6x5 bull.
The problem was that this was a new area to me and found myself not glassing and looking at elk in a distance and planning a stalk, but instead all the hunting was in timber, mostly navigating around and crawling over blown down timber. Only time I could have even shot 200 was in the valley's on the way in to each morning's hunt but the elk were not in the valley's...they were up on the mountain tops in the timber/blowdown.
So I was prepared to kill my elk out to 450 yards but ended up killing him at 30. Blew a hole through both shoulders with the .300 Wby pushing the old 180 grain Jack Carter Trophy Bonded Bearclaws at just under 3000 FPS
Point of all this introduction is that I plan to hunt this area again and another that is similar and when I do I don't want to carry a 24" in barrel I want to carry a 22" barrel gun. And I don't need to be shooting 450 yards so instead of my big optic on a 30mm tube I will be using a Leupold VX3 2x-8X 1" tube that I have laying in the safe doing nothing that weighs 2/3 (or less) what the scope on my .300 Wby weighs. I want something that will punch a big hole in an elk at less than 200 yards (of course the first time I hunt with my new gun I will see a monster 6x6 at 400 yards LOL)
I have a Pre-64 Model 70 (1952) in 30-06 that I am thinking about making my "timber elk" gun. I want to carrely less weight and shorter barrel am planning on putting it in a Brown Precision Stock and putting a Krieger 22" barrel on it. I want a cartridge that functions effiencently in a 22" barrel that is bigger than the .30-06.
I am considering having it rebarreled to:
.338-06 .338-06 A-Square .338-06 AI .35 Whelen
Am I missing anything that I should be considering?
What would you build? Jess Rebore rebored my 30-06 to 35 Whelen. I opted for his 5 groove. He did an excellent job, mine is very accurate. JESS Rebore 541-942-1342
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I have 3 rebores from JES. They All shoot very well!
Its not always easy to do the right thing, But it is always the right thing to do.
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If you want a Whelen or 338, your need sounds perfect to me. Either the 338 or Whelen will reach to 400 without a bunch of trick moves. Sounds like a great build.
Semper Fi
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I’ve only taken one elk, but I’ve hunted for decades in heavy brush in Washington State. Even though you plan to hunt the same area next year, don’t handicap yourself with a brush-gun cartridge—the ability to reach out and touch something is never a handicap. But instead of choosing a cartridge based on muzzle velocity, look at impact velocity at the longest range you plan to shoot, then look for bullets that will expand there. That may limit your choices somewhat. Then crunch the numbers on recoil--a light 35 Whelen can easily kick as hard as a 338.
Brush hunting is an offhand shooter’s game, so mount the scope as low as you can get it. Weaver mounts are as low as almost anything, plus they’re light. That matters because the finished rifle should balance at or very close to the front action screw, and every ounce you add aft of that point pulls the balance point aft as well.
The best way to get the balance right is to take the action, stock, scope, and mounts to your smith and tell him what cartridge you want, then let him pick the barrel contour, etc., required to make that happen. Ask for a recoil pad that's rounded on the heel and toe so it doesn't hang up on your coat on fast shots. A slightly shorter LOP than you’re used to using can be almost like cheating on fast shots, so wear your hunting clothes when you go and ask him about it. Resist the urge to set the trigger too light—three or four pounds is about right for a rifle that you'll use in a hurry. Crisp is more important.
Finally, shoot a LOT of offhand before the season. Focus on getting the safety off as you mount the gun, and on working the bolt hard and fast for your second and third shots. Also work on the post rest, since you may be able to lean up against a tree. I spent a lot of time on the Jeff Cooper Snaps exercise before I went hunting. I also shot double- and triple-taps with my 338, and I dropped my elk with one fast offhand shot at 110 yards.
I know it's blasphemy to say it around here, but if you do this stuff, then the cartridge you choose won’t really matter.
Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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I’ve got a 270, 300 & 340 Weatherby rifles and have found that the power isn’t often needed now that optics have the capability of stretching trajectories in ways I never imagined as an old school hunter. Velocity used to be the only way to shoot far - now it’s about BC. Look at your particular rifle as a bullet launcher only - head stamps are yesterday. Took me several years to figure that out.
Long story short - I went 338-06 and haven’t looked back. Lots of good info both here & online. Not (much) better than a 30-06 with 200 grain partitions but seriously - not much is - however the 338-06 can shoot the grand 250gr Nosler Partition which can literally kill anything. Just my .02
Let us know what you go with
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All kinds of TREMENDOUS feedback in this thread. Thanks to EVERYONE for sharing their knowledge, experience and thoughts. You all have given me lots to ponder on Been a lurker on this forum for years and knew the depth of knowledge here was great So when I needed help it was time to make my first post Thanks again everyone. Going to think on this for a while, do some more research, then get the project started this winter Lots to consider for sure
Last edited by Termin8r; 10/06/21.
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I’ve only taken one elk, but I’ve hunted for decades in heavy brush in Washington State. Even though you plan to hunt the same area next year, don’t handicap yourself with a brush-gun cartridge—the ability to reach out and touch something is never a handicap. But instead of choosing a cartridge based on muzzle velocity, look at impact velocity at the longest range you plan to shoot, then look for bullets that will expand there. That may limit your choices somewhat. Then crunch the numbers on recoil--a light 35 Whelen can easily kick as hard as a 338.
Brush hunting is an offhand shooter’s game, so mount the scope as low as you can get it. Weaver mounts are as low as almost anything, plus they’re light. That matters because the finished rifle should balance at or very close to the front action screw, and every ounce you add aft of that point pulls the balance point aft as well.
The best way to get the balance right is to take the action, stock, scope, and mounts to your smith and tell him what cartridge you want, then let him pick the barrel contour, etc., required to make that happen. Ask for a recoil pad that's rounded on the heel and toe so it doesn't hang up on your coat on fast shots. A slightly shorter LOP than you’re used to using can be almost like cheating on fast shots, so wear your hunting clothes when you go and ask him about it. Resist the urge to set the trigger too light—three or four pounds is about right for a rifle that you'll use in a hurry. Crisp is more important.
Finally, shoot a LOT of offhand before the season. Focus on getting the safety off as you mount the gun, and on working the bolt hard and fast for your second and third shots. Also work on the post rest, since you may be able to lean up against a tree. I spent a lot of time on the Jeff Cooper Snaps exercise before I went hunting. I also shot double- and triple-taps with my 338, and I dropped my elk with one fast offhand shot at 110 yards.
I know it's blasphemy to say it around here, but if you do this stuff, then the cartridge you choose won’t really matter.
Okie John
As a guy that grew up chasing Whitetails in the swamps of Northern Michigan with peep sited lever guns…I am picking up what your laying down brother. Good stuff
Last edited by Termin8r; 10/07/21.
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Some great information here so feel free to ask - but with a warning... you'll get so much info you may have a hard time deciding which way to go so pay attention to details that make sense to you. Also, we love to spend other peoples' money so be prepared if you ask to start saving for that next thing .... Comes right down to it, I've shot elk with a 30-06/180 grain bullets, 300 Win Mag 180 grain bullets, 338/225 grain bullets, 300 Weatherby 180 grain bullets, and now a 26 Nosler/140 grain Accubonds from 30 yards to 600 yards and really couldn't say which one killed better. The rifles that handled best were the easiest to get the job done however.... and that doesn't always a short barrel to accomplish it. I've used my 26" barreled Winchester classic and my 22" barreled Pre 64 custom , both in 338 WM in thick timber and open country and really didn't notice a difference in issues even though I really thought I would... I will say that no matter what rifles I've migrated to over the years due to my rifle looniness like most on this site, I would never feel undergunned for anything in North America with a good stout 30-06 that was built right and was carrying the proper bullets for the job at hand... Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
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Another vote for the 9.3x62... Recoil is not bad. Factory ammo available. And can reload using necked-up 30-06 brass. I need to look into that.... Love your tag line....that is being demonstrated daily in "The Swamp" right now The one caveat to using 30-06 brass is that first time around, you will need to neck up to ~.375", and then neck down to 9.3mm to create a false shoulder. The 9.3 neck die will need to be adjusted so the bolt just barely closes to keep the cartridge head against the bolt face. After the first firing, normal reload process.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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How about the .300 Whelan?
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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