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Joined: May 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
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Anyone here think the Thresher blew up/sank on it's own, back in the day?
The Chinee are playing dangerous games in their backyard and have a man in the WH who won't do anything overtly not in China's interest.
In underwater 3-D ocean chess, one can get rooked, check-mated, or just lose a pawn, by accident or design.
We will never know.
Last edited by las; 10/08/21.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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This stuff has been going on for 50+ years. Once again, read "Blind Man's Bluff". It's a very interesting book. My wife's nephew's FIL was the engineering officer during one of the incidents. Blind Man's Bluff
Last edited by UPhiker; 10/08/21.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
As spending time as a sonar operator ,you not only know how far the boat is from you ,but what type it is by the screw signature and probably even know which one it is.Hell I am talking over 50 years ago.I can only imagine how much better it is now.As far as Old Hat goes,he sure likes to flap his gums about things he has absolutely no knowledge of.My Dad used to say better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are stupid,then to open it and prove it.Huntz
Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It hit Phil's phist dìldo.
I am MAGA.
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The pace drummer.....was he one of the rolling stones....before or after Keith richards?
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Was,nt there a game of chicken called Crazy Ivan? With the Rissians Sub turning around as we followed them and came straight at our Sub. Is there any truth to that?
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Joined: Sep 2020
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Anyone here think the Thresher blew up/sank on it's own, back in the day?
The Chinee are playing dangerous games in their backyard and have a man in the WH who won't do anything overtly not in China's interest.
In underwater 3-D ocean chess, one can get rooked, check-mated, or just lose a pawn, by accident or design.
We will never know.
Most Correct..... WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Makes for good 24 HCF tho' ..... eh?
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
If they knew the enemy was so close that a ram was possible then getting out the way would be better than letting them possibly ram them. Why: Option 1) Letting the enemy hit them. If rammed they would reveal their position and be damaged in an undetermined way rendering the ship and crew in grave danger and possibly not being able to respond. Option 2) Moving. They would reveal their position, but still be a fully functional combat ready sub. Seems like a fcking no brainier to me.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As I said, I'm not a submariner, and you clearly aren't, either.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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This stuff has been going on for 50+ years. Once again, read "Blind Man's Bluff". It's a very interesting book. My wife's nephew's FIL was the engineering officer during one of the incidents. Blind Man's BluffThat does seem like a good book. Maybe I will read it some day, but until then ... How does what is revealed in the book make what we see here seem like anything other then a screw up? I mean, guess what, they know we were there and our sub is damaged and the crew was in grave danger.
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As I said, I'm not a submariner, and you clearly aren't, either. No, as I said, I'm not, but I have a brain which I use to reason with. Risk/gain analysis does not require submarine training.
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
As spending time as a sonar operator ,you not only know how far the boat is from you ,but what type it is by the screw signature and probably even know which one it is.Hell I am talking over 50 years ago.I can only imagine how much better it is now.As far as Old Hat goes,he sure likes to flap his gums about things he has absolutely no knowledge of.My Dad used to say better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are stupid,then to open it and prove it.Huntz The better then tech you assume we have, and I agree, I'm sure we have verey impressive tech, the more unimpressive the damaged sub becomes. Some day we have to stop idolizing everything our military does and face realty and ask hard questions.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
As spending time as a sonar operator ,you not only know how far the boat is from you ,but what type it is by the screw signature and probably even know which one it is.Hell I am talking over 50 years ago.I can only imagine how much better it is now.As far as Old Hat goes,he sure likes to flap his gums about things he has absolutely no knowledge of.My Dad used to say better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are stupid,then to open it and prove it.Huntz The better then tech you assume we have, and I agree, I'm sure we have verey impressive tech, the more unimpressive the damaged sub becomes. Some day we have to stop idolizing everything our military does and face realty and ask hard questions. The only questions that count are the ones that are asked at the official inquiry. We will not be asked to participate and probably not even be entitled to read about it at a later date. Some future Tom Clancy may make a veiled reference to it in some yet to be written book. It makes for some damn fine speculation, but that's about it. I'm still laughing about "sum ting wong, sum ting wong". I can't stop chuckling. kwg
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
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Anyone here think the Thresher blew up/sank on it's own, back in the day?
We will never know.
Yeah, actually, we’re all pretty sure she was lost during sea trials due to faulty brazing, welding. Crew and shipyard personnel around 129 lost. This caused the Navy to rethink how they certify certain systems and brought about the implementation of the SUBSAFE Certification Program. The one you’re thinking about, Scorpion, that’s another story…
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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Proceeded by the phrase "Ho Lee Sheet"! "sum ting wong, sum ting wong".
There are 2 rules to success:
1. Never tell everything that you know.
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Anyone here think the Thresher blew up/sank on it's own, back in the day?
We will never know.
Yeah, actually, we’re all pretty sure she was lost during sea trials due to faulty brazing, welding. Crew and shipyard personnel around 129 lost. This caused the Navy to rethink how they certify certain systems and brought about the implementation of the SUBSAFE Certification Program. The one you’re thinking about, Scorpion, that’s another story… Thresher actually had some measure of voice comms with surface ships right up to the end.
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Guess they never clean the windshields on those damn things!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Campfire Tracker
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I am not a submariner, but one scenario I can envision is that our sub was shadowing and recording the sounds of another sub. The other sub, having no clue that we were even there, proceeded to learn otherwise by blundering into ours.
I am positive that our guys knew the bearing and range of the other, but have no idea if they can pinpoint depth accurately enough to know if an approaching sub would pass under or over them by a few feet. Maneuvering quickly to get out of the way would likely reveal themselves, which is a choice they may have wished to avoid. And I will not surmise either way.
Fighter pilots say "The first one to light up dies." That refers to radar or afterburners, but I'd bet the same thing applies to subs in different ways.
As spending time as a sonar operator ,you not only know how far the boat is from you ,but what type it is by the screw signature and probably even know which one it is.Hell I am talking over 50 years ago.I can only imagine how much better it is now.As far as Old Hat goes,he sure likes to flap his gums about things he has absolutely no knowledge of.My Dad used to say better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are stupid,then to open it and prove it.Huntz The better then tech you assume we have, and I agree, I'm sure we have verey impressive tech, the more unimpressive the damaged sub becomes. Some day we have to stop idolizing everything our military does and face realty and ask hard questions. The only questions that count are the ones that are asked at the official inquiry. We will not be asked to participate and probably not even be entitled to read about it at a later date. Some future Tom Clancy may make a veiled reference to it in some yet to be written book. It makes for some damn fine speculation, but that's about it. I'm still laughing about "sum ting wong, sum ting wong". I can't stop chuckling. kwg No, the only questions which will be officially answered will be at the inquiry. That is not in any way the same as the only questions that count. Tom Clancy is for armchair admirals in their recliners.
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Campfire Kahuna
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They don't handle like a speed boat.
Sheesh
I am MAGA.
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