A friend of mine is going Elk Hunting. His rifle is a 308 bolt action. He has killed a fair share of Deer with it. He want's to know if it will be OK on Elk. He has 150 gr. Rem.--Win--Fed.-ammo, all soft point factory loads. I told Him true the boiler room and He will be OK. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
Don’t shoot bone,keep it in the armpit at a (mostly) broadside angle.
It would be nice if he could find ammo with a premium bullet, like a Partition, mono’s, or a bonded bullet.
And yes, lots of elk are killed with plain c&c bullets, and lots of dead elk are never recovered. I find them almost every year around our high country place.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Many elk have fallen to smaller calibers. The smaller 7mm-08 is very popular with elk hunters and if it'll handle them, the 308 is better. The 308 and 165 bullets is great. As for 150's, I've killed a lot of elk with 150's from a 270.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Don’t shoot bone,keep it in the armpit at a (mostly) broadside angle.
It would be nice if he could find ammo with a premium bullet, like a Partition, mono’s, or a bonded bullet.
And yes, lots of elk are killed with plain c&c bullets, and lots of dead elk are never recovered. I find them almost every year around our high country place.
You stole my words. I wouldn't stay at home with a 308 and a plain 150, but I for sure wouldn't try driving it through the front leg bone on a quartering to shot.
The .308 is more than enough for any elk. This last weekend, while out in the mountains with my elderly father the topic came up about how many elk we had taken in the region (we had no idea, but it was a bunch). Then the topic went to what we used rifle wise, and I had used a .308 for the vast majority of them. From one singe 50ish yard snap shot, to a 615 yard shot, they all fell over dead. The average shot (for me) was in the 400s. Not by choice, but due to environment/terrain.
I would suggest a 155 Scenar pushed by Varget .
You don't need premium bullets BTW, but if it makes you happy, go for it. Before I switched to 155 Scenars, I used Sierra 165 grain hollow point Game Kings, and they were absolutely deadly on mule deer and elk. The reason I switched was that past 5-600 yards the 165 HPGKs started to really get blown around by the wind, due to their profile, whereas the Scenars shot tight groups at all ranges. I never had any intention of shooting at the longer ranges, but the Scenars external and terminal performance was hard to ignore.
If your buddy can shoot, then he will not have any issue. Killing elk is not very hard. Getting them back to the truck is the hard part.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
My only experience with a .308 Win was limited to 165 gr factory loads with Speer Grand Slam and briefly with Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets. Both worked fine on mule deer and cow elk. I never had an opportunity on a bull with that rifle, which I still have. The .308 has enough gas to take elk at sane ranges with good shot placement. I think I would tend to keep shots under 300 yards with it and other medium velocity cartridges. But most of us would do well to keep shooting at critters somewhere close to that range regardless of cartridge. Good luck on his hunt.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
I have one in the back of the truck right now headed for CO first season. Lots of bullets will work within design limitations of the bullet in question. If it were me, I'd take the 308 if he has confidence in it - but would try a couple other bullets in 150-165 gr versions. I'd lean Nosler, Barnes, Fed Trophy. Bullets are the cheap part of the equation......
I lived in UT in the late 70' thru the mid 80's. I used a .30-06 with Hornady Frontier 150 gr Spire Points (cheapest Ammo a kid could afford). SHOT PLACEMENT is where it's at. If you do your job, the .308win will do it's job.[u][/u] Over a 10 year period, I took 7-8 elk in the Monte Cristo area between Huntsville and Woodruff UT.
James Pepper: There's no law west of Dodge and no God west of the Pecos. Right, Mr. Chisum? John Chisum: Wrong, Mr. Pepper. Because no matter where people go, sooner or later there's the law. And sooner or later they find God's already been there.
My late cousin who lived in a number of the western states owned a Win. 70 Fwt. .308 Win., to kill 22 elk over the years. He was a good hunter and a good shot. He used 180 grains bullets and never had any trouble killing elk.
FWIW.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
I have killed a few as well a bear with great success. I find it hard to grab other rifles since it has proven itself and is so nice to carry. Good luck!
I've packed a few of my Dad's elk out of the woods over a ten year span. He used my Grandfather's Win 70 Featherweight in 308win exclusively. He used 165gr bullets.
Don’t shoot bone,keep it in the armpit at a (mostly) broadside angle.
It would be nice if he could find ammo with a premium bullet, like a Partition, mono’s, or a bonded bullet.
And yes, lots of elk are killed with plain c&c bullets, and lots of dead elk are never recovered. I find them almost every year around our high country place.
What would you suggest? I have also found dead not recovered elk, but I can't say any of them were because a .308 didn't do its job! Even with old green box, ammo. No way of telling with what caliber they were shot. Could have been a .22 or a 460 weatherboom. Shot placement.
Grew up in CO hunting elk. Have personally shot about 25 of them and have been in on the taking of over 100 others. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 308 on elk as long as I'm not shooting more than 250 yards.
You get out of life what you are willing to accept. If you ain't happy, do something about it!
He’ll be fine, know a family that kills elk every year with a .308 and Fusions.
There’s also a young girl that gets her picture posted here quit often with dead elk and believe she also uses Fusions, along with Mackay’s daughter and target bullets.
Curious of the hunt type, “elk hunt” has a pretty broad range?
Like the guy that claims “ laid my bull out” to find it was a 1 1/2 year old spike.
I’m planning to elk hunt this season with a .308 as well. Have bullet options including Speer HC, Nosler PT & E-tip, all 150 grain. Am confident that with sound shot placement (within reasonable range, as others have mentioned), a clean, quick kill can happen. The hardest part remains finding them...
A friend of mine is going Elk Hunting. His rifle is a 308 bolt action. He has killed a fair share of Deer with it. He want's to know if it will be OK on Elk. He has 150 gr. Rem.--Win--Fed.-ammo, all soft point factory loads. I told Him true the boiler room and He will be OK. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
Dirty Harry
The cartridge is fine, the bullet and weight suck.
Top tier bullets: A-Frames, Bonded Bear claw (any version), Northforks Second tier (still good): Barnes X-bulelts (any version), Weldcores, Partitions
In .308 you want 180s or custom loaded 200s if you rifle is twisted for it. You can go lighter with Barnes.
I’m planning to elk hunt this season with a .308 as well. Have bullet options including Speer HC, Nosler PT & E-tip, all 150 grain. Am confident that with sound shot placement (within reasonable range, as others have mentioned), a clean, quick kill can happen. The hardest part remains finding them...
With the 150g Partition or E-Tip, ,just shoot them in the front half and the bullet will do the rest........
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
What would you suggest? I have also found dead not recovered elk, but I can't say any of them were because a .308 didn't do its job! Even with old green box, ammo. No way of telling with what caliber they were shot. Could have been a .22 or a 460 weatherboom. Shot placement.
I have shot and seen plenty of elk killed with plain ol' c&c bullets--which is why I prefer premiums. Cuts way down on the elk drama. My family has owned land in the high country of west-central Colorado for several generations. I've been finding dead, unrecovered elk since I can remember. In some cases the elk were fresh enough to find bullet holes, and most had bullet holes in the front half. A one lunged elk can cover a lot of ground in a short time. In dry conditions and thick timber, it can be very difficult to find an elk that travels 500+ yards before it dies.
Partition, TTSX, or E-Tip are my first choice. One can spend a lot more money on the boutique premium bullets, their terminal performance isn't any better, but a particular rifle may prefer them.
It's not the cartridge, it's the bullet that counts. I have a pair of 243's that have now accounted for 15 elk with 100g NPt's--mostly in the hands of youngsters. Hunters being hunters, we still want to focus on the cartridge, when we should be thinking of the bullet.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
I've been finding dead, unrecovered elk since I can remember. In some cases the elk were fresh enough to find bullet holes, and most had bullet holes in the front half. A one lunged elk can cover a lot of ground in a short time. In dry conditions and thick timber, it can be very difficult to find an elk that travels 500+ yards before it dies.
Yup - anyone who spends any time in the high country late October knows all about this. There are a LOT of unrecovered animals.
The Partition and TTSX are pretty good bullets - I would put them solidly in the 2nd tier but still recommended. I have never seen anyone use the E-Tip but it's probably similar to Barnes X bullets.
The advantage of heavy for caliber A-Frames, Bonded Bear Claws, and Northforks is that they almost always give a pass-through so you get good blood for tracking, but give a wider wound track and less chance of a failure to expand than Barnes.
The partition sheds a lot of weight until you get to the middle bores where they move the partition forward. For .30 it's just pretty good. For .338+ it's quite good perhaps first tier.
…they almost always give a pass-through so you get good blood for tracking, but give a wider wound track and less chance of a failure to expand than Barnes.
If those are your criteria, then lumping all Barnes bullets together doesn’t make much sense. The TTSX and LRX tend to expand more rapidly and leave a wider wound channel than the X and TSX, for example, and while I’ve never experienced evidence of expansion failure with a Barnes bullet, online reports of failure to expand are drastically reduced with the TTSX/LRX, as well.
I lived in UT in the late 70' thru the mid 80's. I used a .30-06 with Hornady Frontier 150 gr Spire Points (cheapest Ammo a kid could afford). SHOT PLACEMENT is where it's at. If you do your job, the .308win will do it's job.[u][/u] Over a 10 year period, I took 7-8 elk in the Monte Cristo area between Huntsville and Woodruff UT.
One thing that a great many do not realize, as they have never chronographed their ammo, is that a substantial amount of 30-06 factory ammo is very close to .308 velocities, or at .308 velocities.
Years back I had some green box Remington stuff that someone had given me that was the same projectile weight (165 grain) as the .308 handloads I was shooting. I recall that the listed velocity on the box and what the actual velocity was, was significantly different. Remington's 30-06 was a good 200FPS slower than what the box said. The .308 handloads were faster by a little bit. I don't recall the exact numbers but it was 30-40 fps range.
In spite of all the talk about how poor the 150 class projectiles seem to work on elk, I will stick with 155 Scenars in my little .308.. They seem to have a very consistent track record of putting elk in my freezer.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
The 308 is famously easy on bullets. I've used premiums, and non-premiums with it to take elk. My 308 is currently loaded with 165 Sierra Game Kings, and I'd not be worried a bit to use a conventional Cup and Core 150...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
A friend of mine is going Elk Hunting. His rifle is a 308 bolt action. He has killed a fair share of Deer with it. He want's to know if it will be OK on Elk. He has 150 gr. Rem.--Win--Fed.-ammo, all soft point factory loads. I told Him true the boiler room and He will be OK. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
Dirty Harry
He'll be fine. If there's any doubt, look up Steve Timm's (dogzapper) thoughts on the 308 for elk.
One thing that a great many do not realize, as they have never chronographed their ammo, is that a substantial amount of 30-06 factory ammo is very close to .308 velocities, or at .308 velocities.
Years back I had some green box Remington stuff that someone had given me that was the same projectile weight (165 grain) as the .308 handloads I was shooting. I recall that the listed velocity on the box and what the actual velocity was, was significantly different. Remington's 30-06 was a good 200FPS slower than what the box said. The .308 handloads were faster by a little bit. I don't recall the exact numbers but it was 30-40 fps range.
Agree 100%. Once you spend some quality time with a chronograph, the difference between the 308 and the 30-06 with factory ammo becomes mostly psychological.
Okie John
Originally Posted by Brad
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
Okie John: I believe what you said is correct however, it is my experience that if reloading for both it becomes harder for the .308 to keep up with the .06. As to the original question, the .308 is a fine choice for elk.
One thing that a great many do not realize, as they have never chronographed their ammo, is that a substantial amount of 30-06 factory ammo is very close to .308 velocities, or at .308 velocities.
Given that the entire purpose of the .308 was to duplicate .30-06 velocities in a short action, this should surprise no one. Through a combination of case improvements (the .308 has the same shoulder diameter as the .30-06 AI) and powder improvements they succeeded. But there are many who are ignorant of history. The .308 has acceptable velocity for a non-magnum hunting round. Where it sometime falls down is twist rate and as a result availability of heavy hunting loads.
Handloaded to equal pressures with appropriate powders in equal barrel lengths, the 30-06 is approx 175 +/- fps faster IME.
Having said that, I hand's-down prefer the 308, and my chronograph reports similar findings as Mackay Sagebrush with many factory loads. The 308 kicks noticeably less in similarly stocked/weight rifles, and in a lightweight (sub 7 lbs all-up), the difference becomes even more noticeable.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I personally find the .308 is more than sufficient to meet my needs for the typical hunting and shooting of game animals where shots are in the mid 400s and (hopefully) closer. The 30-06 is really a cartridge (in my opinion) that in order to be utilized to its potential, needs to be properly handloaded. When done so, that is where it really starts to outperform the shorter .308.
Similar to Brad's observations, in my lightweight little 20" Edge stocked T3, the .308 has enough recoil to be notable and you must really focus on solid fundamentals to achieve precise accuracy in the field, especially when you are dealing with often below freezing temps and less than optimal shooting positions. The lightweight rifles are difficult to shoot well, and the lightweight .308 is where I find my Goldilocks point in a rifle that will allow me to make a longer range precise shot, and is enjoyable to carry.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL.
The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world.
I've always kind of thought of the .308 as being one notch down from the 30-06 in capability for pushing bullet weight. What a 30-06 will do with a 180, a .308 will do with a 165. What a .308 can do with a 150, a 30-06 can do with a 165. It's pretty close, and today's bullets are pretty good, even in the 150-165gr weight class.
I am no expert but agree with what has been written that a .308 is sufficient.
A bit of trivia: I have reloaded for several .308 rifles with 165gr Accubonds or Partitions loaded to the Nosler Reloading Manual max with Ramshot Big game that will duplicate the velocity of the same bullet in my 30-06, both rifles having the same barrel length. The caveat is that not all rifles like that specific load. My A7 .308 does but my A-bolt does not. That is why my A7 Edge stocked is my go to handy dandy rig. FWIW, early model A7's had a lightweight stock that closely matches the weight of an Edge.
One can learn much using a knife cleaning big game. Having the opportunity to do so having used 308, 06, 338 win and 243 headstamp means little in the real world in shots in the chest. Headstamp will effect trajectory, though, sometimes by a lot but usually not as much as you might assume. .
Remember why, specifically, the Bill of Rights was written...remember its purpose. It was written to limit the power of government over the individual
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I have a buddy who has been killing everything out here for the past 50yrs with 150 corlokt. His rifle is a Browning BLR (first run too) and he put a humongous Burris 3x10x50 on it ( he loves how it gathers light in the black timber) ha He has tried the 180 round nose, but felt it didn't open up that much, so went back to the 150. He usually uses factory but handloads too, but the 150 corlokt still. He has even shot plumb through a cow bison around 200yds.
150's will do it. I've killed a lot of elk with 150's in a 270. We have guys on here who talk about shooting elk with their 243's and 25-06's. If those little bullets will do it, why won't a 150? That said, I've killed a fair number with 165's out of a 30-06.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Of the three 150 grain factory loads which bullets are loaded in them? If one had to pick the best one for elk it is hard to say unless you know which bullets the factory put in the cases. For instance I have had more consistent results with Winchester's Power Point than I have had with the current version of the Corelokt. The 150 grain bullet in the cheapest Federal load can vary from a made by Federal bullet to a Speer 150 grain Hotcor. If I had to choose from this ammo I would pick the Winchester Power Point ammo.
I was with a retired Colorado guide friend when he took his 60th elk with his .338 Win Mag and he told me to shoot fir a double ling shot a elk can go further with a heart shot than a double lung shot. I also used my .338 on my mature 6x6 bull as it fled for parts unknown - one Texas heart shot with Nosler Partition and bull ran bout 100 yards and stopped to die- I helped him go on to his last reward.
On to the .308: Hunting cow elk in the hills somewhere southeast of Abilene, Texas, we had seen some hunge , fat 6x6 bulls and fat cows but they saw us and dissappeared. Our guide drove the ranch UTV up to the top of a bluff overlooking a valley and we scanned for game Soon an elk cow was spotted about 150 yards out and grazing directly away from us. I followed her in my scope waiting for a broadside shot. At range of 195 yards out, she turned left and then I waited for her to stop to eat. She did and I squeezed the trigger on my 1953 Model 70 FWT .308. The guide was watching with his binoculars and said "Good Shoot. Hair, blood and her insides just blew out the offside". We watched as she slowly walked about 40 yards and lay down. The guide said he saw another cow beyond mine and we drove the UTV back to a two track down into the valley. In about 5 minutes, we passed the dead elk and saw that the 165 grain Hornady bullet had passed through both lungs . Back a camp and with a cup of coffee, ranch staff showed me the elk before skinning it.
Last edited by crshelton; 10/15/21.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
150's will do it. I've killed a lot of elk with 150's in a 270. We have guys on here who talk about shooting elk with their 243's and 25-06's. If those little bullets will do it, why won't a 150? That said, I've killed a fair number with 165's out of a 30-06.
I'm definitely not saying that the 150 from a .308 won't do it, but particularly when it comes to C&C bullets, SD does matter. I certainly wouldn't assume that a .308" 150 gr Speer HC, for example, would hold together and penetrate the same as a .277" 150 gr Speer HC.
150's will do it. I've killed a lot of elk with 150's in a 270. We have guys on here who talk about shooting elk with their 243's and 25-06's. If those little bullets will do it, why won't a 150? That said, I've killed a fair number with 165's out of a 30-06.
I'm definitely not saying that the 150 from a .308 won't do it, but particularly when it comes to C&C bullets, SD does matter. I certainly wouldn't assume that a .308" 150 gr Speer HC, for example, would hold together and penetrate the same as a .277" 150 gr Speer HC.
Agreed since a .308 150 grain Hotcor would be designed for deer and a .277 150 grain Horcor would be built a bit tougher for bigger game.
I guess with the dozens of elk we've put in the freezer with the Hornady interloc 165's out of the 308 and 3006, I've never been able to figure out just when did the bullet actually fail.
the most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it don't go where its supposed to. www.historicshooting.com
You don't need premium bullets BTW, but if it makes you happy, go for it. Before I switched to 155 Scenars, I used Sierra 165 grain hollow point Game Kings, and they were absolutely deadly on mule deer and elk. The reason I switched was that past 5-600 yards the 165 HPGKs started to really get blown around by the wind, due to their profile, whereas the Scenars shot tight groups at all ranges.
In the 80's I killed 6-7 elk with the 150 Sierra GK and a 270. Will that bullet kill elk? Yes. Is it a good elk bullet? Nope. That's a distinction most don't get.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
150's will do it. I've killed a lot of elk with 150's in a 270. We have guys on here who talk about shooting elk with their 243's and 25-06's. If those little bullets will do it, why won't a 150? That said, I've killed a fair number with 165's out of a 30-06.
I'm definitely not saying that the 150 from a .308 won't do it, but particularly when it comes to C&C bullets, SD does matter. I certainly wouldn't assume that a .308" 150 gr Speer HC, for example, would hold together and penetrate the same as a .277" 150 gr Speer HC.
I wasn't going to say it - thanks for making that point Jordan. It apparently goes right over the head's of some...
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
A friend of mine is going Elk Hunting. His rifle is a 308 bolt action. He has killed a fair share of Deer with it. He want's to know if it will be OK on Elk. He has 150 gr. Rem.--Win--Fed.-ammo, all soft point factory loads. I told Him true the boiler room and He will be OK. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK?
150's will do it. I've killed a lot of elk with 150's in a 270. We have guys on here who talk about shooting elk with their 243's and 25-06's. If those little bullets will do it, why won't a 150? That said, I've killed a fair number with 165's out of a 30-06.
I'm definitely not saying that the 150 from a .308 won't do it, but particularly when it comes to C&C bullets, SD does matter. I certainly wouldn't assume that a .308" 150 gr Speer HC, for example, would hold together and penetrate the same as a .277" 150 gr Speer HC.
I wasn't going to say it - thanks for making that point Jordan. It apparently goes right over the head's of some...
Our 30-06 elk load is a 150 grain TTSX at 3060 FPS and I’d say a 308 with similar would be just fine. The soft points will work but do limit shot angles.
5 of our 6 elk (3 cows and 3 small bulls) were taken with 308s last elk season in Utah. Ammo was 165s and 180 Power Points and Core-lokts, shots were less than 100 yards and no elk went farther than 30 yards after shot. Within its range, the 308 has no problem dropping elk.
This one of the bullets we recovered, don't remember what brand it was.
I killed a nice little 5x5 a few years ago with a 150gr Silvertip fired from my M1A. One shot, perfectly broadside at about 70 yards. Dropped the bull in his tracks. While that is what I used at the time I wouldn't recommend the round for elk. The round didn't exit but turned his lungs into spaghetti. Like many have said before me, shot placement is everything. On my typical elk rifles 300wsm/30-06 I typically use either coppers or bonded rounds of 180 grains. Coincidently, this was the only bull that I have shot that literally dropped in his tracks with one shot. I would have dreaded having to try to track that guy had the shot been anything but perfect.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same... President Ronald Reagan
Given a bullet that doesn't blow up the 308 is all the elk gun you'd need. I and my wife have killed a number of elk with 308s and I know probably 30 other hunters in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada and Utah that have done it many many times, going all the way back to the 1960s. In my experience the very best 150 grains bullets will exit them only about 1 time in 2. The 165 grain bullets of the same types do a bit better and the 180s are about the best.
My friend Randy dropped one in the Jarbidge wilderness of Nevada at 415 yards with a factory loaded Remington Core-Lokt and it was the largest bull he ever got. Used a scout rifle I made him with a 2X scope on it too. The barrel is 18" long so an 18" 308 with a 2X scope was just fine. Not that there is anything wrong with larger calibers and longer barrels with huge scopes in them, but I stand on 50+ years of experience when I tell hunters that they don't actually NEED such long heavy rifles for elk. Carry and use them if you like them, But you NEED to know how to hunt.
But in my years of hunting elk, (going back to the 60s) I would say that the 308 Winchester, used with good bullets' (my overall favorites are the 165 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions) is all the elk gun you'd ever need for 99.5% of all the shots you'd ever need to take at elk.
I used the 150 grain Power Point from a .308 once for elk, a small bull. My other kills with a .308 were with Sierra BT's 165gr. All died just fine as they do from a .30-06 and .338 Win Mag. Go for it.
I’d say shoot for behind the shoulder and you’ll be fine. I would prefer a 150 tsx/TTSX if I had to shoot 150’s but if I had 150 c&c’s and that was it I’d still go.
308 with 150gr works marginally. Even with a bonded bullet - like fed fusion - the penetration and mushrooming is not the best past 200m. And don't tell me that one will not shoot a bull if they see it at 300m. Shot placement is - of course - more important than anything. But it is not rare that you have to penetrate the front shoulder on a quartering bull. Even the back leg.... and the 150 will likely not do it.
The ones I recovered were barely expanded past diameter and stuck in the meat with hardly any damage around. As they say: you could eat up to the hole.
Using 180gr is much better, even with the so-called "non-premium" bullets.
If using Ballistic Tips, SSTs so the sorts, then only broadside shots are to be taken to reliably get a good kill.
As far as the 155 Scenars recommended above.... I'd leave those for "snipers" that so not want to waste good eye lid meat.
308 with 150gr works marginally. Even with a bonded bullet - like fed fusion - the penetration and mushrooming is not the best past 200m. And don't tell me that one will not shoot a bull if they see it at 300m. Shot placement is - of course - more important than anything. But it is not rare that you have to penetrate the front shoulder on a quartering bull. Even the back leg.... and the 150 will likely not do it.
The ones I recovered were barely expanded past diameter and stuck in the meat with hardly any damage around. As they say: you could eat up to the hole.
Using 180gr is much better, even with the so-called "non-premium" bullets.
If using Ballistic Tips, SSTs so the sorts, then only broadside shots are to be taken to reliably get a good kill.
As far as the 155 Scenars recommended above.... I'd leave those for "snipers" that so not want to waste good eye lid meat.
Only an [bleep] would try to kill anything by threading a bullet through the ass end into the vitals.
Elk and Safari topic sure does bring out the Supremacism
My grandpa killed a bunch of them with a 32 Winchester Special.
A quick Google search will reveal that the .44 Mag has been used to harvest all species that walk the planet (with a heavy, hard cast bullet at high velocity, proper distance and accurate shot placement). It’s been done by several individuals, with Revolvers!
My respect to them and the bowhunters!
Smith and Wessons are Thoroughbreds; Rugers are Clydesdales —John Taffin
Elk and Safari topic sure does bring out the Supremacism
Haha for sure!! Killed one with my 41 Blackhawk. Pard just pile up a big Cape buffalo bull , ran 30-40 yards and quit.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Anyone loading the 308 with CFE223? Hodgdon manual shows a velocity gain over Varget that's worth chasing.
I have some loaded up with hornady 168 bthp to test, but haven't had time to go to the range. I've never had anything but mediocre to downright bad results with CFE 223 in anything else, but I will give it a shot in 308.
Of the three 150 grain factory loads which bullets are loaded in them? If one had to pick the best one for elk it is hard to say unless you know which bullets the factory put in the cases. For instance I have had more consistent results with Winchester's Power Point than I have had with the current version of the Corelokt. The 150 grain bullet in the cheapest Federal load can vary from a made by Federal bullet to a Speer 150 grain Hotcor. If I had to choose from this ammo I would pick the Winchester Power Point ammo.
Of those choices, I would certainly agree that the 150 grain Power Point performs the best. I did use it to kill one elk with a .308.
The other three elk I killed with a .308 were downed by 165 gr Sierra BT's. These were shot from a 20 in Savage 99E.
The only .308 I have at the moment is a Ruger Gunsie Scout with an 18.3" barrel. If it goes elk hunting it will be using 150 gr Nosler Partitions over RL-15. A couple of in-laws have used the load successfully for several years.
For a 22 in barreled .308 I blieve I would use 165 NPT's
My late cousin who lived in a number of the western states owned a Win. 70 Fwt. .308 Win., to kill 22 elk over the years. He was a good hunter and a good shot. He used 180 grains bullets and never had any trouble killing elk.
FWIW.
L.W.
I have been shooting guns since 1962 and have never ever met a rifleman who had a bad word against the .308. It is the only cartridge in my experience that holds than single opinion.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
I really enjoy shooting and hunting with a .308 Win. I wish I found this fondness earlier in my life.
I too ended up a fan of the 308 later in my hunting career despite considerable disdain for it when I was younger and knew more. It is the least muss/fuss cartridge and rifle (Kimber Montana) that I've owned in 40 + years. It has become my favorite rifle.
The first center fire rifle I bought was in .308, Model 88 Winchester in 1964 for $136.I put a $18 Bushnell Banner scope on it. Back then it did not even have self centering reticles. It went teats up in about 5 years and by then I was rolling in money making $400/mo so I put a $47 Weaver V-7 on it which I used for a lot of years. Being younger and stupider,I killed elk,deer ,pronghorn, javelina, coyotes, jack rabbits, and even won a few six packs of beer with it in shooting matches.I still have it and take it out every once in awhile to hunt with. Pretty hard to find fault with it.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Anyone loading the 308 with CFE223? Hodgdon manual shows a velocity gain over Varget that's worth chasing.
My rifle has a 20" tube in 308 and the velocity / accuracy combination with Varget was lacking. I tried CFE with 168g TTSX and was able to get velocities that are impressive to say the least. Accuracy is outstanding. Around 1.5" at 300y. Here was the result - 294y in Colorado.
Anyone loading the 308 with CFE223? Hodgdon manual shows a velocity gain over Varget that's worth chasing.
My rifle has a 20" tube in 308 and the velocity / accuracy combination with Varget was lacking. I tried CFE with 168g TTSX and was able to get velocities that are impressive to say the least. Accuracy is outstanding. Around 1.5" at 300y. Here was the result - 294y in Colorado.
There's nothing wrong with using a 308 on elk as long as you use an appropriate bullet. I suspect what constitutes as appropriate - the opinions differ from one shooter to the next. For me it would be a premium bullet or an heavier Interlock or similar.
My brother-in-law shot a bull in the lung area with a 300 Win Mag 180 grain bullet (He saw it hit). He followed it all day. I'm afraid he made a poor bullet choice - his opinion too. You'll hear things like I got my elk with such and such a bullet/cartridge - I wonder how many speak up regarding I shot a bull and never found it. I believe using too much is better than too little. Chose wisely...
Last edited by Bugger; 11/04/21.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
What would you suggest? I have also found dead not recovered elk, but I can't say any of them were because a .308 didn't do its job! Even with old green box, ammo. No way of telling with what caliber they were shot. Could have been a .22 or a 460 weatherboom. Shot placement.
I have shot and seen plenty of elk killed with plain ol' c&c bullets--which is why I prefer premiums. Cuts way down on the elk drama. My family has owned land in the high country of west-central Colorado for several generations. I've been finding dead, unrecovered elk since I can remember. In some cases the elk were fresh enough to find bullet holes, and most had bullet holes in the front half. A one lunged elk can cover a lot of ground in a short time. In dry conditions and thick timber, it can be very difficult to find an elk that travels 500+ yards before it dies.
Partition, TTSX, or E-Tip are my first choice. One can spend a lot more money on the boutique premium bullets, their terminal performance isn't any better, but a particular rifle may prefer them.
It's not the cartridge, it's the bullet that counts. I have a pair of 243's that have now accounted for 15 elk with 100g NPt's--mostly in the hands of youngsters. Hunters being hunters, we still want to focus on the cartridge, when we should be thinking of the bullet.
This 100% .
Grumpy old man with a gun.....Do not touch . Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Don't bother my monument and I'll leave yours alone.
Odd man out I don’t really care for the 308 or the 243 for much although they are both classic effective calibers with great pedigrees. The 30-06 light & antelope/coyote gun I’ve owned both & never warmed up. I’d tell your buddy use elk hunting as an excuse to get the 300 magnum flavor he prefers or gets the best deal on & extend his effective range a bit. Just bought a 300WSM for the 16 YO grandson this year shoots 180’s well & not bad recoil for the light savage.
I killed an average bull elk at 265 yards back in first season with the .308 and 130 grain TTSX bullets. Drilled him twice in the right shoulder. He wasn't getting up after the first shot, the second was just a coup de grâs. I'm very satisfied with my .308 sample of one elk performance.
The 308 is famously easy on bullets. I've used premiums, and non-premiums with it to take elk. My 308 is currently loaded with 165 Sierra Game Kings, and I'd not be worried a bit to use a conventional Cup and Core 150...
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
Went with 151 gr Absolute Hammer for my Elk load this year, at 2950fps. Couldn't have asked for better terminal performance at 180 yards, dropped my bull within steps.
But sidepass they seem so a like only come to troll and tell everyone they know everything and every one else is a dumbass. I was sure there had to be a connection.
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
WAM eats like every day is Thanksgiving. Large fork, please!
Someone please tell BuzzH we had to come back to drop off a few working-stiffs......but heading back towards Douglas today. Have a whitetail tag.....of all things.
Also tell him some of his internet friends gave up his name quite a while back. With friends like that.....
Assure him he is in no danger.......unless he swings his skateboard.
But if he still insists on cave-camping......we have another hunt scheduled for December 4th. Ration accordingly.
I'll be (solo) in the red grocery-getter.......Iowa plates. Everyone out there knows where I base tent camp. No phone service.
Originally Posted by WAM
It’s amazing what goofydick crap you’ll post when someone puts a burr under your saddle!
Happy Thanksgiving. Gobble til you wobble…
"Those that think they know everything are annoying those of us that have Google." - Dr. D. Edward Wilkinson
Note to self: Never ask an old Fogey how he is doing today. Revised note to self: Keep it short when someone asks how I am doing.
caveat. Did not read replies. Mostly due to what 24 hour has become..
308 and 168 ttsx was more impressive on moose than 338 win mag and 250 partitions... both moose dead by clients. Almost exact same range at around 100...
Wouldn't bother me in the least. OTOH I'd hunt moose or elk with a 243 too. Bullet choice. Shot placement. As with anything light you might have to pass a shot though... thats where the big boomers come in. but watching the 338 win mag at 250 partitions I'd have to pick another bullet for dang sure.. That bullet twice never made it to the ribs on the other side of a big moose and neither were full on shoulder bone shots...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Had an old friend in Salcha, AK (Mr. Bradshaw) who only hunted with Savage Model 99 rifles. Said the 308 was useless on moose, but the 300 savage killed them "deader than dead."
He was old when I met him and is probably resting with the angels by now. This was 1989 timeframe, and all he shot was cup and core. His mantra was "placement, placement, and placement. In that order."
Most of the natives I met in the villages were shooting moose with 308s, and that was their "big gun."
They were big on sneaking closer, then "closer still." One guy, with one arm from an accident, hunted with an iron sighted Model Seven in 308 and had a moose for every family member darn near each year. He'd dog me when I hunted out there (near King Salmon) for bringing a "300 whatever the heck that thing is" instead of learning to be more stealthy and a better shot.
40 years later, I realize he was right.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
These old stories are fun.. But in most cases they are about some old timer who lived in the country with unlimited time to hunt... I knew one of these guys in my youth .. He kept his family fed on wild game.. Legal or other wise.. First he used a model 94 .30/30. He had a chance to pick up a 99.300 Savage. He didn't hesitate, it was his rifle, the kids got the .30-30s.. Then the 06 became more common in that area.. First chance he picked one of those up..
The residents in the far north used to use .22 Hornets and .222s for big game lots of ammo in a small package.. If game got away there is always another one.. This is JOC's writing.
Sure a .308 with kill elk.. One old rancher of my youth shot elk with his 722 .222. Ear shot in his hay fields late summer early winter.. Come season it was an 06 later a .264.. Another friend told me he had shot 150 elk with his .243.. They were shot in the ear while eating on his hay stacks in winter.. Meat was given to folks that needed it.. Hunting on his own, .270 or .300WM..
Shot my first Elk, while it was eating at one of our hay stacks, i was standing on a bunch of burlap sacks in the back of my Grandfathers International Harvester, pick up, Big dry cow, used a model 94 30-30, 1948 N.W. Colorado, I was 9 years old. we raised Beef, but we ate Elk. Times have changed for Damn sure. Rio7
What I find interesting is the impression some have that a 300 mag is a good 500-600 yard elk cartridge but a 308 isn't a good 300-400 yard elk cartridge.
What I find interesting is the impression some have that a 300 mag is a good 500-600 yard elk cartridge but a 308 isn't a good 300-400 yard elk cartridge.
Yeah, I always find that interesting too!
My personal experience with the .308 and elk indicates that if somebody has trouble with the .308 they either need to practice more, or maybe use a different bullet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Probably very true.. Not many use the .308 here.. But one of my pals in northeast Wyo.. Has outfitted his wife and girls with fairly heavy .308s but with the barrels cut of I think to about 20".. They slay piles of game with them.. I think they use 125 gr. Accubonds.. These girls are of slight stature but have been shooting since they could pick up a rifle. I guess the .308 on elk and the .223 on deer get old..
These old stories are fun.. But in most cases they are about some old timer who lived in the country with unlimited time to hunt... I knew one of these guys in my youth .. He kept his family fed on wild game.. Legal or other wise.. First he used a model 94 .30/30. He had a chance to pick up a 99.300 Savage. He didn't hesitate, it was his rifle, the kids got the .30-30s.. Then the 06 became more common in that area.. First chance he picked one of those up..
The residents in the far north used to use .22 Hornets and .222s for big game lots of ammo in a small package.. If game got away there is always another one.. This is JOC's writing.
Sure a .308 with kill elk.. One old rancher of my youth shot elk with his 722 .222. Ear shot in his hay fields late summer early winter.. Come season it was an 06 later a .264.. Another friend told me he had shot 150 elk with his .243.. They were shot in the ear while eating on his hay stacks in winter.. Meat was given to folks that needed it.. Hunting on his own, .270 or .300WM..
My clients have 10 days to hunt or less. Still with any round we have to pass shots. Had to pass 400 yard shot on a big bull wit 338 win mag. Client said he couldn't do it. Ok.
Frankly if the bullet is chosen correctly and can penetrate, it doesn't take much to get through hide and a rib and get both lungs. Thats all one needs. Even the 243 with the right bullet can do it on elk I'd bet.
That said if I was a client I'd bring along the gun that could shoot the south end of a north bound animal and hopefully be headed on towards Santa., Just in case.
In TX I'd shoot deer with a 22 LR if legal. One HP in the ribs and they are done just as often as with an 06. Note I've seen an 06 go through both lungs and not kill a deer here too. So you can't cover every single animal.
And if DRT is needed for terrain reasons, the ONLY way to do that is shot placement. That can take a larger round/bullet penetration, but also takes a perfect shooter at the same time.
Whats my backup as a moose guide 338-06. But this year think I"ll carry a garand because I want to. I'd carry an M1A but the ones we own are too heavy.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
I knew another sourdough in AK who shot a 308 with 220 RN bullets at moose and elk. Said it's his "308-6.5 Swede." Looking at the ballistics, that's not far off.
He said he'd never lost an animal since switching to this.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
308win is just fine for elk. I'm sure many have been taken using 150gr cup and core bullets. I too use a 308win for elk except I shoot 180gr partitions. Tell your friend he'll be fine.
While the 308 with good placement will certainly work and has for many here if your friend is looking for an excuse to buy a new rifle there is no better excuse than an elk hunt. Any flavor 300 magnum with a good 180 grain bullet extends the effective range another 150+ yards and opens up lots more angles. New Tikka or Vanguard with a Burris FF2 4.5-14 and his sub $1000 elk rifle will be ready to get lots of practice before the trip.
The moral of 6 pages is - shoot what you have confidence in. My Alaskan guides' 13 year old shot a trophy caribou last year with his .223 Rem.. His "big gun" was a 7-08 for a bull moose and a Dalls sheep. Go figure..............
Last edited by bigwhoop; 12/12/21.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Lots of elk, bear, moose killed very dead with the old 30-40 Krag and its 180. A 308/180 can beat it safely another 100fps second! The 303 Savage (think 30-30) and its 190gr was only around 1900, and killed gobs of big game. So I think the 308 is plenty for elk, especially after seeing my buddy use his and just that old 150 corlokt! ha I do believe a 150-160 Mono really beefs up the old war-baby!
I picked up a real nice 88 Winchester in a 308, been doing load development with it. I settled with 165gr Hornady btsp, Accurate 2460. It shoots 180 partitions pretty good. But I don’t want to beat this rifle up with 180’s. The 88’s were known for cracking stocks, so I figure 165’s be a happy medium.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Hows the trigger on that 88? Everyone I ever tried felt like a double action revolver trigger? ha
It’s not too bad I managed a 3/4 inch group with 165 Hornady’s took some playing with OAL. I love to find a 88 pre 64 in 284 but ones I seen prices out of my range.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Might as well bump this back up for the people who will be taking their 308 Winchester to the hill again this year. We have spring bear season around the corner and deer and elk this fall, with some other good stuff tossed in for fun. Whatever makes you happy, enjoy your day.
The .308 is more than enough for any elk. This last weekend, while out in the mountains with my elderly father the topic came up about how many elk we had taken in the region (we had no idea, but it was a bunch). Then the topic went to what we used rifle wise, and I had used a .308 for the vast majority of them. From one singe 50ish yard snap shot, to a 615 yard shot, they all fell over dead. The average shot (for me) was in the 400s. Not by choice, but due to environment/terrain.
I would suggest a 155 Scenar pushed by Varget .
You don't need premium bullets BTW, but if it makes you happy, go for it. Before I switched to 155 Scenars, I used Sierra 165 grain hollow point Game Kings, and they were absolutely deadly on mule deer and elk. The reason I switched was that past 5-600 yards the 165 HPGKs started to really get blown around by the wind, due to their profile, whereas the Scenars shot tight groups at all ranges. I never had any intention of shooting at the longer ranges, but the Scenars external and terminal performance was hard to ignore.
If your buddy can shoot, then he will not have any issue. Killing elk is not very hard. Getting them back to the truck is the hard part.
Where I hunt is mostly timber where I've taken 3 small bulls with 30.06 and the 180AB... all under 50 yds. But there is areas that are wide open mixed in. For those of you shooting the 155 Scenars in 308, how is the terminal performance at 50-100 yards or less? Do they frag or hold together.?
I've never shot an elk, but I've done tons of research. 308 Savage and Nosler Accubond are as good as it gets for hunting elk.
Is this a Savage 99 or 110? Or perhaps it's a 300 Savage in the Model 1920 rather than a 308 Win? Is the Nosler Accubond a 150, 165, 180 or 200 grain bullet?
Your research may be revolutionary and I'd like to learn more
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
I wouldn't hesitate one bit to grab a .308 Calibered Rifle for an Elk! Especially after knowing, and looking at the Ballistics of the Round that I chose! Today we have many different Good Caliber choices, and IMO, the .308 is one of them!
Last edited by HunterShooter58; 04/10/22.
I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/yYDjsxrQ/IMG-0124.jpg)
![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/52018_600x400.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/c4yT1kwz/20210811-095846.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/901CBnLs/20211101-081047.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/d7nKS7k2/DDB7-D363-3123-4-E58-8-A1-F-8-F4-BAD6703-C8.jpg)
