Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 10mm 180 FMJ for woods protection

It's OK to use a quality hollow point. Really, it is. This notion of solids only for dangerous game is an internet farce. Solids are required for dangerous game in Africa because the size of the animals is so extreme and hide/bones so tough. Shots on these animals require very precise shot placement, typically brain - even in self defense situations.

Hollow points are designed to inflict maximum damage and energy transfer. Most hunting regulations forbid non-expanding bullets of any type for hunting...because they don't kill game effectively. Where allowed, the military chooses hollow points for missions because they are significantly more effective than FMJ's on adversaries. Yet we have this internet notion that animals that are going to eat us, and must be stopped with some sort of solid bullet. If solids are so effective, why don't we use them on two legged threats? There's no vital in a black bear that's more than 15" under the skin from any direction when he's positioned in a threatening way. Almost every reputable expanding bullet these days penetrates 15" in gel tests. I know gel tests are not real world, not even close, but it's one perspective. If something is gnawing on me, I want immediate damage to vitals or CNS. I don't care if the bullets comes out the other side. I'm not tracking some blood trail.

Sure, caliber matters too. Someone will say a 44mag, with a 300gr. lead hard cast doing 1200fps with a meplate of 0.4" is the ticket. Sure, it also has 50% more energy of a hot 10mm.

For me, when I'm in the mountains in CO, I carry a 10mm with 200grain XTP's in everything but the G29 (which is absolute last resort woods carry gun), which gets 200grain lead hard cast. The only reason the LHC is carried in the G29 is due to the short barrel, the velocity of copper bullets (more barrel resistance) is not much better than a 40SW. Lead bullets are about 50-100fps faster and produce a measurable increase in energy. For me, I want full energy transfer to the target, penetration to at least 20" (heavy bullets help), and bullet construction that will expand, but not break apart. Getting that penetration from a heavy expanding bullet requires hot 357's, 41's, 10mm's or 44mags.

I've seen XTPs fail to expand at 1400 FPS I'll take a quality flat point hard cast any day

Deer are not large heavy game v

Knowledgeable handgun hunters do not use, OK very rarely use JHP’s on large dangerous animals, though, most Black Bears are not extremely large....however, it only requires one large bear if you are the object of it’s affection!

Also, knowledgeable handgun hunters, understand the ft/pounds of energy at typical handgun velocities means near nothing. It’s penetration, penetration, penetration......equating to greater tissue destruction were it is needed! Shallow, large surface wounds, mean little.....ya gotta get to the vitals, and break, tear, and damage stuff!

For a very good description of what the use of the “wrong tool for the job” will do for you.....read Larry Kelly’s (renowned handgun hunter) story of his Alaskan bear encounter using a 44 Magnum loaded with JHPs. 6 (I think) rounds fired at close range .....none of which penetrated to the bears vitals! Had it not been for the guides .375 H&H and the bear electing to turn and run at the last moment.....forensic experts would have been telling the story! memtb

This notion of penetration is valid, but only sometimes. You have to stop the threat, that does not require penetration per se, it requires a vital hit (heart, CNS, pelvis). We all know that, same for two legged vermin. Penetration does not make that hit any easier. It just means that if the shot angle isn't exact, you stand a better chance of getting to the vitals.

Handgun hunting is different than defensive handgun use against animals. You pick your shot when hunting. I've shot deer with 44mag, 240gr HP, left a fist size hole on the back side. I'd have rather used a solid and kept more meat.

This notion of penetration is valid, but only sometimes. You have to stop the threat, that does not require penetration per se, it requires a vital hit (heart, CNS, pelvis). We all know that, same for two legged vermin. Penetration does not make that hit any easier. It just means that if the shot angle isn't exact, you stand a better chance of getting to the vitals. A black bear does not require 48" of penetration. Period. I want maximum damage on the way to the vital. I don't care if the bullet comes out the other side or not.

Alaskan brown bear, Cape buffalo, bison, sure, all require something more powerful than a 10. No doubt. The OP specifically said BLACK BEAR.

Handgun hunting is different than defensive handgun use against animals. You pick your shot when hunting. I've shot deer with 44mag, 240gr HP, left a fist size hole on the back side. I'd have rather used a solid and kept more meat.

This notion of penetration is valid, but only sometimes. You have to stop the threat, that does not require penetration per se, it requires a vital hit (heart, CNS, pelvis). We all know that, same for two legged vermin. Penetration does not make that hit any easier. It just means that if the shot angle isn't exact, you stand a better chance of getting to the vitals. A black bear does not require 48" of penetration. Period. I want maximum damage on the way to the vital. I don't care if the bullet comes out the other side or not.

Alaskan brown bear, Cape buffalo, bison, sure, all require something more powerful than a 10. No doubt. The OP specifically said BLACK BEAR.

OMG can you imagine a HP bullet that acts like a solid!???? WTF???? Total failure, yup better pick the solid, because a HP that acts like a solid is bad. So then solids are bad right?

Neither is a typical black bear.

Handgun hunting is different than defensive handgun use against animals. You pick your shot when hunting. I've shot deer with 44mag, 240gr HP, left a fist size hole on the back side. I'd have rather used a solid and kept more meat.

This notion of penetration is valid, but only sometimes. You have to stop the threat, that does not require penetration per se, it requires a vital hit (heart, CNS, pelvis). We all know that, same for two legged vermin. Penetration does not make that hit any easier. It just means that if the shot angle isn't exact, you stand a better chance of getting to the vitals. A black bear does not require 48" of penetration. Period. I want maximum damage on the way to the vital. I don't care if the bullet comes out the other side or not.

Alaskan brown bear, Cape buffalo, bison, sure, all require something more powerful than a 10. No doubt. The OP specifically said BLACK BEAR.

I forgot to add, hollow points and soft points, bounce off animals. All the animals killed by them over the last 100 years are in the same file as the fake moon landing. How easily I forget. Must be the same reason why PETA led divisions of wildlife require them in the hunting regulations, it's safer for the cute animals.

What's in your CCW, lead hard cast? Cant have those whimsical HP's bouncing off biker jackets, getting clogged on cotton white tank tops and fat man grizzle.

XTP is a pistol bullet btw. I'd expect it to fail at rifle velocities...so would the manufacturer.

[quote=memtb]

I've shot deer with 44mag, 240gr HP, left a fist size hole on the back side. I'd have rather used a solid and kept more meat.

I must be doing something wrong. I first shot a deer with a .44 magnum, 240 grain hollowpoint, almost fifty years ago. Since then, I've killed a number more with 240grain hollowpoints out of .44 magnums, as well as with 210 grain hollowpoints from .41 magnums and a plethora of rifles from .22 rimfire to .45-70. I don't think I've ever blown a fist-sized hole out the back side of a deer with any of that stuff.

I have several boxes of 180gr FMJ flat nose that are rated at 1230fps and wondering if it is enough for black bear and such. No grizzly where I hunt yet. I have looked high and low for 200gr hard cast and nothing is available right now. The only thing close to it is Buffalo Bore 10mm 190gr mono-metal. Any other ideas?

I was recently doing some shooting of the 1911 with the target tacked onto the side of a 16 inch douglas fir stump. We ran a few mags of 38 Super 115 gr Berry's plated RN through the gun.

Then I changed targets and put the 10mm barrel on the pistol. Two mags of Berry's 180 gr FP over 6.5 gr Universal went through and through the stump with every shot. That's pretty decent penetration.

I recently purchased 300 Hunters Supply 200 gr FP cast in 10mm. They seem to be still available for reloaders.
https://hunters-supply.com/401-cal-200-p-2030.html

Looking for loaded ammunition? This might cover your needs.
https://choiceammunition.com/produc...cast-choice-bear-defense100-hand-loaded/

Just out of curiosity, I checked into that site.

The ammo is 37 bucks (36.99) for 20 rounds. They then wanted $24.43 for ground shipping to my address. For 20 rounds. Shipping is most certainly expensive, but dang.

That's 61.43 for 20 rounds. Over $3 every trigger pull. Ouch.