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Campfire 'Bwana
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For real? This is supposed to be the rifle looney site!
Last edited by MtnBoomer; 10/16/21. Reason: Yes, I do feel better...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Carl, here's part of a short article I wrote on this subject a year or two ago:
In 2017 I started collecting firearms websites that use caliber when they should use cartridge or chambering. You’d think shooting industry folks would know better, but here’s the list—though some companies (including Hornady and New Ultra Light Arms) have apparently heeded the calls for caliber correctness since I started the list:
Barrett Firearms Federal Ammunition Fierce Arms Franchi GA Precision Heym Hill Country Rifles Holland and Holland (calibre) Hornady Howa H-S Precision Kimber Lapua Lyman Mauser New Ultra Light Arms Norma Rigby (calibre) Ruger Sako Sauer Shaw Barrels Smith & Wesson Speer Tikka Weatherby Rifles Winchester Rifles
Listing caliber-incorrect websites, however, might imply this is a recent development, caused by the general semi-literacy of the Internet. But it’s apparently traditional—and sometimes perpetrated by revered members of the shooting profession.
Col. Townsend Whelen, perhaps the best-known American rifle writer during the first half of the 20th century, misused caliber quite a bit, even well into the second half of the century, doing so several times in the 1965 book Mister Rifleman, co-authored with Bradford Angier. Ken Waters, the long-time “Pet Loads” columnist for Handloader magazine, published a column on the .300 Weatherby Magnum in 1971, where he stated the barrel on his rifle is “the No. 1 contour barrel, standard in Weatherby Mark V rifles of this caliber.” The English language complicates this by being more flexible than some other languages. German, for instance, tends to be pretty rigid, especially the written form, though major controversies have erupted over recent attempts at uniformity. The German orthography reform of 1996 (Reform der deutschen Rechtschreibung von 1996) simplified and sometimes deleted older rules, such as capitalizing all nouns. But so many traditional Germans rebelled that a decade later the Council for German Orthography reversed many “reforms,” including capitalizing nouns. American English is far more flexible, largely due to Noah Webster. His original 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language (which Webster called Federal English, as opposed to British English) was based on his belief that spelling, grammar and definitions should be based on how most people actually spoke and wrote—which is how he came up with his commonly understood meanings.
“Caliber” is so commonly used for cartridge and chambering at least 90% of us wouldn’t hesitate when somebody takes a look at one of our rifles and asks, “What caliber is it?” Instead of arguing about the meaning of caliber, we’d reply .243 Winchester or .30-06 or .375 H&H. Only the other 10%, who firmly believe there’s ONE definition of caliber, get as upset as traditional Germans who know nouns MUST start with a capital letter. (These percentages are just guesses, of course. In my experience the percentage of caliber Websterists is probably higher, perhaps even 99%.)
Of course, caliber-correctness has not died, despite widespread changes in American common usage since we rebelled against the British government. This is why you probably won’t see any of my articles describe the .270 Winchester or .300 Weatherby as a “caliber.” However, I am getting older and more forgetful, so won’t guarantee anything—though I still believe ranting against the “misuse” of caliber resembles trying to block a tidal wave with a sand castle.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Outfitter
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What caliber would be best matched with a 6x18 Leupold and Hardscrambles?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What caliber would be best matched with a 6x18 Leupold and Hardscrambles? Prolly 30 caliber
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This has been chewed more times than I can remember since I joined in 2010.
Communication is more important than nit picking.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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^^^^^ Arkansas
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What caliber would be best matched with a 6x18 Leupold and Hardscrambles? Prolly 30 caliber Spinning projectiles down the tube.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks, it's a big relief to get this out.... Carl, here's part of a short article I wrote on this subject a year or two ago:
In 2017 I started collecting firearms websites that use caliber when they should use cartridge or chambering. You’d think shooting industry folks would know better, but here’s the list—though some companies (including Hornady and New Ultra Light Arms) have apparently heeded the calls for caliber correctness since I started the list:
Barrett Firearms Federal Ammunition Fierce Arms Franchi GA Precision Heym Hill Country Rifles Holland and Holland (calibre) Hornady Howa H-S Precision Kimber Lapua Lyman Mauser New Ultra Light Arms Norma Rigby (calibre) Ruger Sako Sauer Shaw Barrels Smith & Wesson Speer Tikka Weatherby Rifles Winchester Rifles
Listing caliber-incorrect websites, however, might imply this is a recent development, caused by the general semi-literacy of the Internet. But it’s apparently traditional—and sometimes perpetrated by revered members of the shooting profession.
Col. Townsend Whelen, perhaps the best-known American rifle writer during the first half of the 20th century, misused caliber quite a bit, even well into the second half of the century, doing so several times in the 1965 book Mister Rifleman, co-authored with Bradford Angier. Ken Waters, the long-time “Pet Loads” columnist for Handloader magazine, published a column on the .300 Weatherby Magnum in 1971, where he stated the barrel on his rifle is “the No. 1 contour barrel, standard in Weatherby Mark V rifles of this caliber.” The English language complicates this by being more flexible than some other languages. German, for instance, tends to be pretty rigid, especially the written form, though major controversies have erupted over recent attempts at uniformity. The German orthography reform of 1996 (Reform der deutschen Rechtschreibung von 1996) simplified and sometimes deleted older rules, such as capitalizing all nouns. But so many traditional Germans rebelled that a decade later the Council for German Orthography reversed many “reforms,” including capitalizing nouns. American English is far more flexible, largely due to Noah Webster. His original 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language (which Webster called Federal English, as opposed to British English) was based on his belief that spelling, grammar and definitions should be based on how most people actually spoke and wrote—which is how he came up with his commonly understood meanings.
“Caliber” is so commonly used for cartridge and chambering at least 90% of us wouldn’t hesitate when somebody takes a look at one of our rifles and asks, “What caliber is it?” Instead of arguing about the meaning of caliber, we’d reply .243 Winchester or .30-06 or .375 H&H. Only the other 10%, who firmly believe there’s ONE definition of caliber, get as upset as traditional Germans who know nouns MUST start with a capital letter. (These percentages are just guesses, of course. In my experience the percentage of caliber Websterists is probably higher, perhaps even 99%.)
Of course, caliber-correctness has not died, despite widespread changes in American common usage since we rebelled against the British government. This is why you probably won’t see any of my articles describe the .270 Winchester or .300 Weatherby as a “caliber.” However, I am getting older and more forgetful, so won’t guarantee anything—though I still believe ranting against the “misuse” of caliber resembles trying to block a tidal wave with a sand castle.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Damn! Now that we finally got this straight I will be able to sleep tonight 😁......Hb
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yes
Last edited by tzone; 10/16/21.
Camp is where you make it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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^^^^^ Arkansas You’re DANG right !! We can read New Rifle Boxes and know what they’re talking bout. [quote=Mule Deer] In 2017 I started collecting firearms websites that use caliber when they should use cartridge or chambering. Barrett Firearms Federal Ammunition Fierce Arms Franchi GA Precision Heym Hill Country Rifles Holland and Holland (calibre) Hornady Howa H-S Precision Kimber Lapua Lyman Mauser New Ultra Light Arms Norma Rigby (calibre) Ruger Sako Sauer Shaw Barrels Smith & Wesson Speer Tikka Weatherby Rifles Winchester Rifles “Caliber” is so commonly used for cartridge and chambering at least 90% of us wouldn’t hesitate when somebody takes a look at one of our rifles and asks, “What caliber is it ? —————————— We have known long before the WWW and The Hunter’s Campfire that “Caliber, 30-06, 270 Win.” et.al designated the cartridge the gun fired. Communication buddy not nit picking. Jerry
Last edited by jwall; 10/16/21.
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Calling a cartridge a caliber is nothing but ignorant, if not willful stupidity.
Like calling a cartridge a bullet by the uninformed.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Some folks reading comprehension is lacking to say the least.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Considering that manufacturers literally stamp "CAL. 30-06 Springfield" or "CAL. XYZ Cartridge" on the barrels of guns since forever, it's understandable people use it that way. I don't sweat the small stuff and won't nitpick someone over it generally. However, the distinction becomes more important in the context of handloading and ballistics, especially handloading since you need a proper designation for every component and aspect to properly discuss it.
I don't get worked up over somone calling a detachable magazine a "clip" either. Context makes it clear what they mean. Good enough.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I don't get worked up over somone calling a detachable magazine a "clip" either. Context makes it clear what they mean. Good enough.
Don't go there! I found examples of Remingtoon calling their part for the 760 all three terms: CLIP MAGAZINE MAGAZINE CLIP Almost two much too bare.....
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Calling a cartridge a caliber is nothing but ignorant, If not willful stupidity.
Like calling a a cartridge a bullet by the uninformed.
Long lost brother? AMEN
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Damn! Now that we finally got this straight I will be able to sleep tonight 😁......Hb You're welcome. I felt it was time.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Ranger
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Clip, shells/bullets, groupings, pattern (for rifles) it goes on and on.
Unfortunately (for me) I have a long list of more important things to waste blood pressure points on.
Stand in any gun shop on a busy day, if you can stand to. If every customer got all of this right, how many wouldn't still show their complete ignorance. And ignorance of that ignorance.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Don't destress, but a random old dude today asked me, at Brownells, if 22LR HP ammo was for a 22 LR..... I had to do a double-take and then figured out he was serious. Yes sir, it sure is. It's both LR and HP.....
Random peeps get a pass, not 'Fire regulars. Come'on Man.
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Some folks reading comprehension is lacking to say the least.
Jerry What are you trying to say?
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