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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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No.....but 20 years ago I was a yes. I was wrong and bought into the wmd lie.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,404
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Read "Fiasco" by Thomas E. Ricks
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2014
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Should We Have Gone Into Iraq?
At the time I fully supported the war. I even voted twice for Alfred E. Neuman and his side kick sure shot Cheney. I was grossly mistaken, and I think going into Iraq was absolutely wrong.
Last edited by OldHat; 10/18/21.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All muslim factions and variations have the same end goal. Supporting one over the other is a fools errand.
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What's our success rate on nation building? My guess is <%25.
Wars are for kicking ass. Building back a nation is kind of like kicking a bullies ass, then taking him to the hospital and buying him a new house when he gets out.
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,317
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
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What's our success rate on nation building? My guess is <%25.
Wars are for kicking ass. Building back a nation is kind of like kicking a bullies ass, then taking him to the hospital and buying him a new house when he gets out. doing? It's the Oprah Winfrey model of diplomacy. You get a house and you get a house .....everyone gets a house!
I am MAGA.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Hindsight is always 20-20. ..... Not meant to slam anyone.
At the time, I went along with it, admittedly. Now? It was the most asinine thing the U.S. could have done. Moreover, the corruption in all things related to the sandbox is mind boggling. Plus the decades long refocus of the US military/Intelligence community into an anti terrorist role. What a Fiasco!
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 11,986
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 11,986 |
GWB was an idiot of the first water for going in there. I can understand Afghanistan but not Iraq. There were lots of ways to contain Sadam. We had no plan for when we took the country. As for Powell, I'm happy to send a card stating my approval.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,817
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2014
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What's our success rate on nation building? My guess is <%25.
Wars are for kicking ass. Building back a nation is kind of like kicking a bullies ass, then taking him to the hospital and buying him a new house when he gets out. Rebuilding Japan went very well. They are a key component of the asian anti Chinese block. Whether that will matter is another question.
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.
Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East. He neutralized Iran too, and kept order in Iraq. He was zero threat o the US.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
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GWB was an idiot of the first water for going in there. I can understand Afghanistan but not Iraq. There were lots of ways to contain Sadam. We had no plan for when we took the country. As for Powell, I'm happy to send a card stating my approval. What did we understand about Afghanistan? That they were from Saudi Arabia and backed by the same? That we were about to unleash an Opiate epidemic on the US? There was money to be made? That the "Great Game" had been taking place in Afghanistan for over a hundred years?
Last edited by Jim_Conrad; 10/18/21.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,491
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Saddam was the weight on the pressure cooker. Once removed, the kitchen got real messy.
Agreed. Taking him out left a power vacuum that we naively thought Democracy would fill. Not in the Middle East. He neutralized Iran too, and kept order in Iraq. He was zero threat o the US. Iran wasn't a problem until Jimmy Carter did his best to remove the Shah. The Shah was the weight on the Iranian pressure cooker.
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,157
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 10,157 |
What's our success rate on nation building? My guess is <%25.
Wars are for kicking ass. Building back a nation is kind of like kicking a bullies ass, then taking him to the hospital and buying him a new house when he gets out. doing? It's the Oprah Winfrey model of diplomacy. You get a house and you get a house .....everyone gets a house! It’s more like staying there for decades wasting trillions of dollars with the US as a hated occupying force while trying to set up a puppet regime to fore the locals to adopt our worldview. Japan was a great success but that’s been about it.
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 13,234 |
What's our success rate on nation building? My guess is <%25.
Wars are for kicking ass. Building back a nation is kind of like kicking a bullies ass, then taking him to the hospital and buying him a new house when he gets out. doing? It's the Oprah Winfrey model of diplomacy. You get a house and you get a house .....everyone gets a house! It’s more like staying there for decades wasting trillions of dollars with the US as a hated occupying force while trying to set up a puppet regime to fore the locals to adopt our worldview. Japan was a great success but that’s been about it. Germany and Italy turned out ok too. It's amazing what you can accomplish with civilized people who can appreciate Western values. You don't find many of that ilk in the Middle East or Southeast Asia
Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,326 |
Was he any worse than the ayatollahs who replaced him?
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,239 |
All muslim factions and variations have the same end goal. Supporting one over the other is a fools errand. Couldn't agree more. It's a war that cannot ever be won.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,484 |
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
As stated in multiple replies.
FJB & FJT
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,326
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,326 |
All muslim factions and variations have the same end goal. Supporting one over the other is a fools errand. Couldn't agree more. It's a war that cannot ever be won. Oh, it'll be won, but it won't be won by man. It'll be won at the battle of Armageddon.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,204
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
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I have no idea if we "should" have tried to liberate Iraq or not, but my experience after 2 tours was that like everywhere else, 10% of the people are 90% of the problem. I can't count how many times I was tipped off to IEDs due to the Iraqi kids. The adults were generally scared shïtless of the extremists and that is why they often were reluctant to help us. It was out of fear of reprisal, not because they hated us. Their entire families would be killed by the Mujahideen/ISIS/Al-Qaeda in Iraq if they were seen cooperating with us. The general populace (at least in Al Anbar) wasn't overall against the MNF-W occupation, though they were (rightfully so) leery of it and its effects. They knew once we withdrew the extremists would take right back over.
The islamic society concerning women, religion and what they perceive as right and wrong is completely screwed up and they just simply don't know any other way. I won't disagree with that but they're not all bad people there. Far from it.
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,317
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,317 |
I have no idea if we "should" have tried to liberate Iraq or not, but my experience after 2 tours was that like everywhere else, 10% of the people are 90% of the problem. I can't count how many times I was tipped off to IEDs due to the Iraqi kids. The adults were generally scared shïtless of the extremists and that is why they often were reluctant to help us. It was out of fear of reprisal, not because they hated us. Their entire families would be killed by the Mujahideen/ISIS/Al-Qaeda in Iraq if they were seen cooperating with us. The general populace (at least in Al Anbar) wasn't overall against the MNF-W occupation, though they were (rightfully so) leery of it and it's effects. They knew once we withdrew the extremists would take right back over.
The islamic society concerning women, religion and what they perceive as right and wrong is completely screwed up and they just simply don't know any other way. I won't disagree with that but they're not all bad people there. Far from it. Thumbs up. This idea that we have to rid the world of Muslims is preposterous.
I am MAGA.
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