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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Last edited by Birdwatcher; 11/13/21.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,138
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,138 |
Good read thanks Birdwatcher.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15 |
Galloway was speculating in arrears about a mind he never knew.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 822
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
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Thank you for the link.Great read.
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1 |
First I ever heard about McNamara's memo, he called it dead on; too bad that fu^cking idiot LBJ couldn't comprehend the POS he created & then stepped in with both feet with his policies & decisions.
MM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,291 Likes: 12
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,291 Likes: 12 |
decent article. birdie thank you a strategy of attrition is proof that you have no strategy at all. plus no hot pursuit into Cambodia what poor leadership. Just repeated in Iraq and Afghanistan . politicians and lawyers managing combat
Last edited by ribka; 11/12/21.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,920 Likes: 1 |
McNamara was the problem from day one
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Joined: Feb 2018
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2018
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We won every battle, but lost the war. If the politicians hadn't got involved there would have been a different outcome.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,210 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
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We won every battle, but lost the war. If the politicians hadn't got involved there would have been a different outcome. If the politicians hadn’t gotten involved we wouldn’t have been there in the first place.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,980 |
We won every battle, but lost the war. If the politicians hadn't got involved there would have been a different outcome. Please don’t take this the wrong way because I have a somewhat limited knowledge of events in Vietnam, but my impression of that war was that there were not many real battles, and it was a war of mostly brief contacts and most of them where not that decisive in their outcome Our education is probably not as good as it should be in real history and if anyone has some better information I am really interested to hear it Thanks Birdy for the OP
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Joined: May 2020
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,644 |
Good early morning read! Frustrating but good. We haven't learned a phuquing thing and am certain we have refined the mistakes of the past.
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
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As General Giap stated, we didn’t have a strategy. Stuff I’ve read the last few years seems to point to the fact that the North Vietnamese almost felt sorry for us in thinking that we kind of got duped into the conflict by the French and then the corrupt South Vietnamese. To this day, even though we probably killed two million of them, they have far more hatred for the French and the Chinese than they do us.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15 |
Maybe we left rather than lost. Google-foo could be your friend. Try Paris Peace Accords.
While you’re at it ask why the North signed off.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
Maybe we left rather than lost. Google-foo could be your friend. Try Paris Peace Accords.
While you’re at it ask why the North signed off. We didn't win Dan, just like we didn't win in Afghanistan...not sure who did...but it wasn't us.
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15 |
Did not suggest we won. We did not lose. The S. Vietnamese lost. The North signed off on the Accords because they had no other rational option.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,283 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,283 Likes: 9 |
In the long run, we did. Vietnam today calls itself communist and technically it is, but it is also a thriving economy that's almost capitalist. Look at the things you've bought in the last few years: many of them say Made in Vietnam.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15 |
I suspect Vietnam is more capitalist than the USA these days. Long term view? Maybe we won after all.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,283 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,283 Likes: 9 |
Subjectively, Dan, I want to think we won just to satisfy myself that we didn't risk our lives for nothing. Objectively, though, I think we can make a case that we showed the people what capitalism meant. And Asians have always been very quick to seize any personal wealth they can. They work damn hard to get ahead no matter where they live. That IS capitalism.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,172 Likes: 15 |
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,621 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,621 Likes: 29 |
I suspect Vietnam is more capitalist than the USA these days. Long term view? Maybe we won after all. Productive little buggers.
I am MAGA.
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