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Re: Sako 450 Rigby Riflehunter #16620598 11/14/21
Joined: Jan 2021 Posts: 33 montreal C canuckistan Campfire Greenhorn
canuckistan Campfire Greenhorn C Joined: Jan 2021 Posts: 33 montreal	in the 458 me and my friend take the 458 lot load data one example he shout barnes 350 tax with reloader 7 at 2680 fps this with bullet that you can move forward and have the same case capacity of the lot and. safely of the lands Last edited by canuckistan; 11/14/21. Reason: forgot the mention something

GB1

Re: Sako 450 Rigby smallfry #16624832 11/15/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky	Riflehunter said, in black, my comments in red: If the standard .458 WM chamber is long-throated ... Yes, it is famously long throated as the standard SAAMI chambering ... and modified ... only the ammunition is modified, to be precise, no modifications to the standard SAAMI chamber ... so that it effectively becomes a magnum-length cartridge ... we call that the .458 WM+ "wildcatted ammunition" which is not limited to lower pressure and shorter length than the SAAMI .458 Lott ... (so as to hold more powder and reach 2300 fps), ... we assume you are speaking of 500-grain bullet at 2300 fps, to be more specific ... wouldn't it be better to have the case longer so that it fits the standard cannelure of the bullets that are now sticking out further, rather than cut a new cannelure further down the projectile? ... Take for example the 500-gr TSX that has 5 cannelures/grooves and is on average about 1.660" in length (from lots of 1.650" to 1.670" lengths that I have measured) which may be loaded to COLs of roughly 3.78", 3.68" or 3.58" using the 5th, 4th, and 3rd cannelures already there. At 3.58" COL, the seating depth is 0.58", way more than enough. To load the same bullet in the .458 Lott with 2.8" brass, one must use the first cannelure on the bullet and trim the 2.8" brass down to 2.760", according to the Barnes manual, in order to make maximum COL loads for the .458 Lott. With that, the seating depth in the Lott will be 0.820". What a waste. That is what happens when you make brass 0.3" longer and try to shoehorn it into a rifle action that allows only 0.2" longer magazine. There has been a rash of shortening bullet noses that were formerly optimum for the .458 WinMag, so as to make them work more easily in the SAAMI .458 Lott. Yes a rash broke out with the SAAMI .458 Lott disease ... This would give more support and protection to the projectiles that are subject to violent recoil when in the magazine True, but many .458 WM+ loads have more than enough seating depth and are locked in place by 100% load density and a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They do not pull loose and they do not get battered deeper into the case ... and would also give more support to very light short bullets that would otherwise have either a very long jump to the lands or have very little of the neck holding them. ... That is why I say that the SAAMI .458 Lott is only better with birdshot for snakes and rat bullets for small pests. If you want to fix the SAAMI .458 Lott, then give it a throat like on the wildcat version that Jack Lott built. The long jump with short bullets in the .458 WinMag is somehow not an accuracy impediment, it just works. The short and tight throat in the SAAMI .458 Lott will not even allow cast bullets of proper diameter for best accuracy, unless they have bore-rider noses and have the full diameter seated deeply ... Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Sako 450 Rigby canuckistan #16624849 11/15/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky	Originally Posted by canuckistan in the 458 me and my friend take the 458 lot load data one example he shout barnes 350 tax with reloader 7 at 2680 fps this with bullet that you can move forward and have the same case capacity of the lot and. safely of the lands That is exactly what I did with the Woodleigh data for the 400-gr PPSN in the .458 Lott. I took the maximum load for the .458 Lott and loaded it to the 3.425" COL of the .458 Lott load (when crimped on the Woodleigh factory cannelure) but in the .458 WinMag at same COL, using an added cannelure (not needed with Lee Factory Crimp Die). I thus exceeded 2600 fps with the 400-grainer, with same COL and same degree of powder compression as required in the .458 Lott, with H4895. The pressure of this .458 WM+ load fired in a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum chamber must be lower than the pressure of same load in a SAAMI .458 Lott with short and tight throat. Physics does not lie. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

Re: Sako 450 Rigby Riflecrank #16630968 11/17/21
Joined: Mar 2015 Posts: 2,141 Idaho S smallfry OP Campfire Regular
OP smallfry Campfire Regular S Joined: Mar 2015 Posts: 2,141 Idaho	Originally Posted by Riflecrank Originally Posted by canuckistan in the 458 me and my friend take the 458 lot load data one example he shout barnes 350 tax with reloader 7 at 2680 fps this with bullet that you can move forward and have the same case capacity of the lot and. safely of the lands That is exactly what I did with the Woodleigh data for the 400-gr PPSN in the .458 Lott. I took the maximum load for the .458 Lott and loaded it to the 3.425" COL of the .458 Lott load (when crimped on the Woodleigh factory cannelure) but in the .458 WinMag at same COL, using an added cannelure (not needed with Lee Factory Crimp Die). I thus exceeded 2600 fps with the 400-grainer, with same COL and same degree of powder compression as required in the .458 Lott, with H4895. The pressure of this .458 WM+ load fired in a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum chamber must be lower than the pressure of same load in a SAAMI .458 Lott with short and tight throat. Physics does not lie. Ron I have a spare Portuguese M70 in 338 WM. What needs to be done to accommodate this length for 458 WM?

Re: Sako 450 Rigby smallfry #16634055 11/18/21
Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky Riflecrank Campfire Tracker
Riflecrank Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2016 Posts: 3,360 Likes: 7 Western Kentucky	smallfry, You must have missed this on the other thread a few days ago: "The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once" Click here to select Sir Name for Knighthood I like your idea of turning an FN/SC/Portugal M70 .338 WinMag into a .458 WinMag. Now that I have realized it only takes an unblocking of the rear of the magazine and a shortening of the bolt-stop-ejector ... And a new barrel, of course ! Originally Posted by Riflecrank Originally Posted by smallfry He done leaked out fast. Yes, bled promptly, the meat was tasty for a mature buck in the rut. I saute'ed some diced tenderloin with onions and mushrooms for my supper tonight. It was to die for, said the buck. smallfry, you have shown excellent judgement on the .450 Rigby thread. It deserves recognition by membership in the Knights of the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood. Choose your sir name please. That thread does have some interesting material that could be quoted here, to harken back to the days when the .458 WinMag needed defending. Much has been debunked since then. Recognizing the greatness of the .458 WinMag does not have to be a chilling effect on commerce. Sure, it may sometimes stifle the sale of a lesser known .458-caliber rifle and ammunition, but it also spurs the proliferation of rifles for the .458 WinMag and its ammunition and components. And one can still own and play with all the others too. Have your cake and eat it too. I like your idea of turning an FN/SC/Portugal M70 .338 WinMag into a .458 WinMag. Now that I have realized it only takes an unblocking of the rear of the magazine and a shortening of the bolt-stop-ejector, I will do that too, soon as the GUNSMITH gets caught up on his backlog, for I have a .500 Jeffery languishing there at the GUNSHOP & SPA FOR WAYWARD RIFLES. That one is just for fun, not a serious rifle like any .458 WinMag is. I need the GUNSMITH to re-barrel the M70 .338 to .458 WinMag. I can do the magazine unblocking and bolt-stop-ejector shortening myself if need be. Even a late model .30-06 M70 can be used by adding on the bolt face enlargement by GUNSMITH. No milling of action bridge needed for up to 3.6" COL. Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.

IC B2

Re: Sako 450 Rigby Riflecrank #16634384 11/19/21
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,854 Back home in Dixie W Wildcatter264 Campfire Tracker
Wildcatter264 Campfire Tracker W Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,854 Back home in Dixie	Having owned, shot and hand loaded for the 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott and 450 Rigby, the last is my choice and current heavy DGR. Unlike the 458 and the Lott, the Rigby easily achieves 2350-2400 FPS MV with 500 grain bullets with 4350 and 4831. It’s capable of higher MVs but I don’t believe the added recoil is worth it and greater MV is unnecessary. My 450 Rigby is a rebored 416 Rigby Ruger RSM with a slightly slimmed stock, NECG peep sight and a QD Leupold 2.5x scope, should I decide to use the rifle for a shot at something other than an elephant. This cartridge is one of those which meets its designer’s purpose without drama. No flies on either the 458WM or 458 Lott, but the 450 Rigby is the choice for the true loony. Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry Deus vult! Rhodesians all now

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