Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics 'P.O.I.T.' syndrome

Al
So you are bedding the lapping bar and not the actual scope?
I started bedding the bases after mic'ing several 700 actions and found they varied in diameter as well. And them there is the issue to the 2 different radiuses from front to back, not to mention if you are using a one piece base that there is almost always a gap if you hand one end of the rail firm against the receiver.

Might be why back in the day most everyone used and recommended using the Redfield or Leupold one piece scope base.

Two piece bases were out there but not many people used them. No doubt the one piece base is stronger and more stable than a two piece base. What amazes me is the faith people put in aluminum rings and bases.

Aluminum is a good material for beer cans and custom wheels....I want steel for scope bases and rings.

Correct. The lapping bars are 1.00 and 1.181 (30mm) and are ground rather than turned. If you're going to make your own out of round bar stock, make sure on the dimension as that can vary quite a bit. Both of mine are home made...drilled and tapped them 3/8X16 and Loctited a carriage bolt with a piece rubber hose around it for a handle. Permatex valve grinding compound works great for a lapping compound. When the bedding is in the ring bottoms, I just lay the lapping bar in the bottoms with the handle supported by the side of the stock. I used to put the ring tops on but you have to tighten them a bit more than I like to keep the bar from rotating in the bedding material. Laying the lapping bar in the bottoms just seem to work better for me. This is a Sako A1 single shot 22PPC I did recently:












Yep. Most of the ring/base mfgs. stuff is pretty much on for dimensions. The ring/base mfgs have no control over what dimensions the actions are (any make) and that's where the tolerances start to stack up. Up until 2006, The 700's weren't ground or tuned on the O.D....they were hand finished, except for the 40X's, which were either ground or turned for roundness and the rear bridge was profiled.

Good shootin'. -Al

Nice Sako Al....I wasn't too impressed with Leupold's attempt at mating up with a Sako dove tailed receiver.

Buehler made a base that allowed the use of their rings on a dove tailed Sako receiver...when Tally came out with a Sako base for the dove tailed Sako receiver I converted from Buehler to the Tally base and rings on my Sako's.

Very informative post as usual Al. Thank you.

For years I used Warne rings directly to the Sako/Tikka integral rail. Due to reports of vertically split rings adversely affecting scope tracking, the last couple Tikka I set up were done with the Sportmatch rings that have been widely recommended here and on other sites. Both options have been fantastic, and through numerous set ups I've yet to encounter a pair of either that required any lapping for alignment. Both options hold a scope securely and don't leave ring marks or marring on scope tubes.

When available, I like to mount directly the the integral receiver rails or bases. Unless adding inclination, I don't see the utility in adding extra screws and parts to the assembly; often times it puts the scope up unnecessarily high, and it adds more things to go wrong and more parts and surfaces to be off a little and require attention.

My lapping bars are drops from Thompson shafts from back in my tool and die days. Can not drill those for a handle as they are as hard as a wedding night pecker. My 1" is about 12-14" long and I just wrapped electrical tape around each end to prevent scratching anything (after I scratched newly finished Sako, I think I threw up a little over that one)

Good to know....the next time I get a Sako to do, I'll try a set.

The best rings I've found for the Sakos have been the Leupold versions. The fit to the integral tapered dovetail is excellent and of the 5-6 sets I've used, none has required much metal removal with the lapping bar to get them squared up and aligned. This is the set from the Sako pictured earlier....you can see how much contact the lapping bar made after only half a dozen passes. Very good, especially for a steel ring.



It's one of my favorite guns...shoots killer good for a factory gun with only pillar bedding, load work and excellent hand made BR bullets.

Beautiful set up, AL.

I used the Leupold rings for Ruger's, Sako, Tikka, as well as for DD and STD bases for years and had mostly good luck with them. I did experience some scope sliding and a couple broken ring screws on heavy recoilers, so I moved to 4 screw per ring designs both for extra width to grab the tube and for fastener redundancy and increased force distribution.

I know I could use smaller/less velocity calibers and or heavier or braked rifles and likely mitigate a lot of the scope and mount related issues I've experienced; however, a guy likes what he likes. As Elmer Kieth wrote, "I like to do my hunting before the shot."

As mentioned before, everything gets bedded. Did these yesterday for a pretty unique project. -Al



Finished bedded bases....pre clean up, hole chamfering, edge relieving, etc.

You're a bedding fool Al.....

I told the guys here about bedding rings and bases for a couple years now… and the guys here thought I was nuts, so I’m glad someone finally spilled the beans.

Nice pic’s Al, you must use the same release agent I use, I can see the metal finish showing in your bedding work.

What amazes me is people think this is some sort of voodoo. Or worse, that's it's either foolish, not needed or doesn't have benefits. Basic, sound mechanical priniciples are just that...basic.



It's the release wax from Score High that comes in the Pro Bed 2000 kits.

Thanks and good shootin'. -Al

Side note - I’m planning on building a 30 BR next year to shoot 100 - 300 BR with, I’m still trying to settle in after my move so I haven’t had time to screw with it yet.
I’ll use a Robinette reamer but I may go a tad thicker on the neck.

I doubt I’ll post about that here, maybe a couple pictures.
I’m still deciding on the action, stock, ….
I already haven’t NEO rest, and a good bench spotter, but need to get a good rear bag.

Some guys have recommended I look for a used rig.. but I can build one so that is hard to do.
I was looking at getting a Neuvo but …. I’m holding on right now

Good to hear. The 30BR's are so simple and work so well. Assuming a proper twist for the correct bullet lengths you're using, the only place to get in trouble with them is on the reamer specs......specifically neck diameter, neck length and free bore diameter. Those are critical for making these 30BR's work. Be aware that many of the 'Robinett' reamers are not correct, dimensionally! There are some subtle changes to better work with current Lapua 6BR parent cases that will keep you out of trouble. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Randy and I are good friends and talk several times each week, usually on some project we're collaborating on. I just finished doing a pillar bedding job on his Savage 99. Now that was an interesting project! Was going to post the pics of it here but thought better of it for a lot of reasons....as some of the comments here and on pillars and pillar bedding clearly illustrate.

Just finished this 30BR for myself late this Summer. Modified the Panda to a bolt in, adding a recoil lug to it and doing some other tweaks, as well.





Veered off course a bit so better end with a relevant pic of the topic. The rings are bedded....



Good shootin'. -Al

They're are still people that think it's some hoodoo..... me included.

Yeah I’m not impressed with the reamer maker marketing practice of slapping Robbinett on their reamers….
I think that finally managed to bother Randy , given he finally had to post something about the variations in spec’s.

I haven’t pinged Randy yet, but IIRC he said the only thing he’d do to his original spec was possibly go with a slightly larger neck diameter, I tend to like a thicker neck wall than most, but since I started using a arbor with a pressure monitor on it … well that’s been changing.
Historically I’m a tactical shooter, but like others once you can put them inside a dime, you want to make them clover leaf, now that I’m there I want a single hole…. But that requires hanging out with a bunch of bench shooters, so it’s now a goal for the upcoming next few years.

I did see your articles on Twist and bullet weights for 30BR assuming you are the Al I’ve seen over at accurate shooter that is…

Guilty as charged. Sent you a PM with reamer info.

One of todays projects. There might be something to this lapping and bedding stuff.....

Reupold's excel at lapping. Hint.



Last rifle hastily assembled,on tail end of last pass. James' spout(7" RPM 224 Speedmire),90 Beer Can Smooches at 3225fps from 22",Alpha brass,'17',TT Flattie trigger,REAL M40A1 Return,1913 base/rings,10x MQ. Seems to shoot a "smidge",despite dragging Wichita's in the process. Hint.




TQ values would cause Nightmares,scritches,scratches and a dose of weather,being givens(fhuqking POURING now). Rifles shoot loose and NEVER tight. Hint.

Have a few more rifles enroute,but it's tough to ascertain timing,given the weather. I see a new barrel in an unopened parcel and more than a few others packages to carve through. MTU 280 oughtta be close too. Hint.....................

Who can I pay to bed my scopes? Grin