Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Looks like S&W is getting back into the 10mm market

The 10mm makes for a pretty practical field gun. For a good many people who do not shoot on a frequent basis it is on the upper limit as far as what they can handle when it comes to shooting quickly with any sort of decent accuracy. It has proven to be a fairly effective round in the Rockies and AK.



Plus the fact that popular 10mms such as the Glock are fairly light as compared to a more traditional N Frame revolver or Ruger Redhawk, it is understandable why S&W jumped on the opportunity to cut into this market.

Stark testimony to the round's effectiveness and reputation. The bear took one look at that 10mm and shat himself...

Mackey,
what's your ideas of the 10 vs hot 45/45 Super?

Especially in something like the G21/29 that can run Super with just
spring changes?

With some more splendid pixels please.

Dillon.

I think most people do not recognize/understand the capability of the .45. Part of that has to do with the fact that outside of custom manufacturers, there is almost no ammo available for the .45 ACP that is allowing it to be used to its full potential.

The 10mm is recognized for its ability, and it has a well deserved reputation. That said people really do not know much about the capabilities of a proper .45 load. Oddly enough, as this is being written, I am loading what I consider to be the ideal .45 ACP load that is appropriate for .45s in proper working order/properly maintained, with good springs.

That is a 250 grain hard cast flat point at a shade past 950 FPS.

In a bunch of testing the load averaged 956 out of 5" barreled 1911s.


People associate powerful .45 loads with revolvers, not autos...

Many recognize the power of the excellent .45 Colt.




John Linebaugh wrote the following:


I have personally taken about 10 antelope and 1 mule deer with a .45 Colt. My boys have taken around 6 antelope and 5 mule deer with their .45 Colts. They use a 4 3/4" Colt SA and the handload is a 260 Keith cast at 900 fps. This load will shoot lengthwise of antelope and mule deer at 100 yards.

A 45 caliber 260grain hardcast @ 900 FPS has a well deserved reputation as an excellent game stopper. Using the standard USPSA power factor formula of bullet weight x velocity divided by 1K you get a power factor of 234.

In .the same 45 caliber (this time a semi auto platform) we are launching a 250 grain bullet at 956 for a power factor of 239.

Basically you are getting the same type of power, simply in a much easier to shoot semi auto platform.

Personally I don't care much about "formulas", I just use it as an easy reference for folks to compare.

The fact is that a hot, heavy hardcast .45 ACP is a rather formidable setup, and one that I carry often in the mountains.






I spent a lot of time in Grizzly country this year and I packed a 1911, loaded with this load more often than not this year.

Frankly, 10mm or hot .45 ACP, I think you are good either way. I think many are simply not aware of what is available with the .45.

I wish that Glock would upsize the G36 and chamber it in 10mm for those of us who find the 20/21 grip just a little too big. A 8-9 shot would be ideal with at least a 4.25in barrel. I know it's futile but I can wish...

Thanks Mackey.

You pretty much confirmed my thoughts, and I've been watching
you ammo threads. Saw that load.

I've got bunches of 255 for the 45 colt, and a Springfield RO.

Pondered some warm loads after maybe fitting a flat bottom pin stop.

If nothing else, just for grins.


Uphiker,
Just thinking, don't let my thought hurt you.

The G30s came from people putting a 36 slide on a 30.

So...could one put a 29 slide on a 36?
Magazines. That might be the wrinkle.

Don't be an idiot. It's the trigger I don't like on the pistol, and I was perfectly clear about that. And not all those you named are even the same.

10mm is for girls.

Thanks for the fyi. I was going to get the wife a XD, but now I'll try to find the Smith instead.

More firearm models in 10mm is great. I love my G29 and G40, though I wish the triggers were more like a rifle. Hopefully this carries some interest over into the .41 Magnum spectrum as well. Both the 10 and .41 are perhaps the finest cartridges IMO, but I only consider "ethical for mule deer and up" type rounds unless it's a 22LR.

Mackay, where did you find that 950 fps load data?

I fired the loads through the two chronographs that I use for testing. I learned that a number of ballisticians with a bunch of letters behind their name will often use two chronos when trying to achieve the most accurate/reliable data. Normally it is more important for rifle testing, but when I do initial testing in the T&E phase I will do the same thing and compare the numbers. Sometimes chronos can be affected by sunlight (actually they are greatly affected by sunlight). Shadows will affect them, even a slight tilting of a sensor can give an inaccurate reading.

Using the two chronongraphs at the same time is a pretty simple way to confirm that the numbers are valid.

Overcast days give the most accurate readings 📚

I've got an ugly old Beta Master that the stickers fell off of long ago. I'd replace it but it works fine and more importantly, I have used it long enough to know how, when and in what light to use it to get consistent, predictable results. It's also never been shot, primarily because when friends and family want something chronographed, I do the shooting.

This is a very interesting idea. I don't have a problem with the G20 grip, but the slimmer lines with a 4.25" barrel would be nice for the carry option. Less bulk...even though it's not a lot...is always nice when carrying. 8 shots would be good for a woods gun.

Not to mention the potential for an "I shot my chrony" story that tops anybody else's.

Sorry, I meant to ask where did you find the specific data for powder charges with that bullet? You're correct about the two chrony idea. I friend and I used to do that. We discovered his chrony was a bit of a "liar".

PA,

The load data I am using for that load, which is a load I sell commercially, is not in any books. That said, if you research information on +P and .45 Super both here and elsewhere you will find lots of excellent information.

That particular load was designed to be used in guns that have been properly maintained and are in safe working order, yet still kept in stock form. In other words (using a 1911 as an example) not putting in flat bottom firing pin stops, changing magazine springs, etc.

You would be surprised how many people have no clue about maintaining a firearm and assume that if their semi auto is functioning then the recoil spring is totally fine and they don't need to replace it. That is like saying, "I have 100K miles on these tires, and they have never popped, so they are totally fine!"

BTW,


here is an excerpt from a gent (after being told that his recoil spring is quite obviously badly worn out) advised the other person that he has been loading 50 years and... well you can get the rest:

By the way one of my glock 22s and my glock 23 have at least 20k on them and i wouldnt doubt the 23 has double that and the same recoil spring glock put in it at the factory is still going strong and ive NEVER had to replace a spring in a glock magazine. Ive had to fart with them in the cheap aftermarket mags but NEVER a glock factory mag. Ill add to that every mag i have in the house is stuffed full and left that way till its used and put away loaded when im done.

So this gent who has been handloading for 50 years and refuses to learn, has a .40 caliber Glock with at least 20,000 rounds on the recoil spring. A recoil spring that should be replaced at an interval of every 3-5K rounds.

But when he blows something up, it will be something else's fault. Not his own...

The HK USP will handle 45 Super will handle without any mods. But I had to put a new stronger spring in the magazine to feed correctly.