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The search for missing aviator Steve Fossett near Lake Tahoe has brought to attention eight (at last report) old crashes, some of which are decades old. I've heard ne'er a mumblin' word about how many of those were previously undiscovered. I wonder �

In 1959, a friend of mine in Alaska spotted some wreckage that he hadn't seen before, in an area where he'd flown very, very often. He assumed that it was a recent crash, so he landed right away and went to the wreckage.

It was an Air Corps P-51 or P-39 that had been lost on the old World War Two Red Star route � at least fourteen or fifteen years old. And not many years ago � 1990s, IIRC � someone found the previously undiscovered wreckage from a World War Two crash, in the timber on a mountain very close to a Montana highway. In both cases, IIRC, the pilots' skeletons were still in their seats.

In the West and far North, an airplane crash can go undiscovered for many years despite long, intense searches. Two crashes in Alaska � 1950s � took the lives of several people whom I knew, and as far as I know, they haven't been found yet.

With those poor guys that weren't found till years later, you could only hope that they died on impact.

ONe canyon on the Uncompahgre Plateau holds the wreckage of four different aircraft. The canyon is in the path of the most obvious route to the west.

Often the case for private pilots in Southwest Colorado is the failure to recognize the reduced performance of single engine, normally aspirated aircraft at higher altitudes encountered in Southwestern Colorado (the highest region in North America).

A warm day, 4 passengers with luggage, and a Piper or Cessna single engine doesn't climb very fast, and a has ceiling lower than many mountian ridges--much less the higher peaks.

Failure to circle up to altitude, then turn and fly out of the valley, and misjudging the sloping shelf of the Uncompahgre Plateau, has been the undoing of many pilots from the flatlands.

One of the highest accidents rates in the nation is for aircraft flying out of my hometown airport.


Casey

Years can change the facts on airplane crashes. Last winter I became involved in getting the true identity of a plane crash near Queen Valley, AZ. Queen Valley & the nearby RV park are made up by mostly snowbird seniors. Most everyone knew there was an airplane crash site about � mile from the RV park. Rumors were it was a twin seat trainer from the 40's & both pilots were killed. I bought the story, until I went up there with a couple of retired airline mechanics. They said by the size of the fuel lines, this was no prop plane. Then one of them found a barrel (20mm). 5 barrels were found! Clearly it was a fighter built sometime in the late 50's. A lot of parts were stamped with a Republic stamp. Republic made a 105 fighter but no record of one crashing in AZ! I finally contacted arizonawrecks.com One of a group people who have a hobby of finding old airplane wrecks . He & his buddies had been looking for this wreck for about 5 years. Accident report was off by one degree! True identity of plane- 105B crashed July 29 ,1960 & the pilot parachuted safety!

I have to correct myself (did a little more looking to refresh and correct my memory).

The wreckage of one of those two Alaska crashes was much later found.

Clarence Rhode was the regional director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service in Alaska when he disappeared in 1959. He was flying the USF&WS Grumman Goose, number N720. With him were his son Jack and wildlife agent Stan Frederickson. I knew Stan fairly well but had met the Rhodes only briefly. The older Rhode had photographed me feeding parka squirrels in the Alaska Range a couple of years before.

On their last flight, they stopped where I was working on an Arctic archaeological dig on Ogotoruk Creek, and I talked with them just before they continued and were lost. One of the largest and most extensive searches in Alaska history failed to find the wreckage of their Goose. In 1978 � nineteen years after they were lost � hikers in the Brooks Range found the wreckage.

Later, in another crash in 1972 (not 1950s, as I misremembered and misstated above), two high-ranking members of Congress � House majority leader Hale Boggs (D-LA) and Congressman Nick Begich (D-AK), were lost, along with Begich�s aide Russell Brown, and pilot Don Jonz. They disappeared on a political-campaign flight from Anchorage to Juneau, as they were (supposedly) approaching the Chugach mountain range in SE Alaska, in a Cessna 310 (registration number N1812H).

I�d known Don Jonz years before, just after he�d changed his name from Jones to Jonz, and I knew no one (except him) who had the slightest use for him. He was fond of saying that true mastery of the air lay in knowing how to break the rules. If he filed a flight plan for that flight, I wouldn�t be surprised to find that he deviated from it, and tried to fly in instrument weather when he should�ve been on the ground.

Boggs was taken to the airport for the first leg of the trip by a young Democrat (Bill Clinton!) who later appointed widow Lindy Boggs as US ambassador to the Vatican. (She�d already served eighteen years in the House after her husband disappeared.)

Boggs also served on the Warren Commission in the investigation of the assassination of John F Kennedy. Conspiracy theorists have reported that Boggs wasn't happy with the commission's findings and had been pushing for the investigation to be reopened. But his daughter, Cokie Roberts, the TV reporter, said on a radio talk show in 2004 that he had no problem with the commission's findings and was not pushing for reopening the investigation.

The last I've heard is that Hale Boggs, Nick Begich, Don Jonz, and Russ Brown have yet to be found.

I'm not much of a history or wreck fanatic, but my wife turned me onto the book "Shadow Divers" over the summer. I listened to the tape version while travelling. It's the true story of the discovery, and subsequent quest to identify, a u-boat wreck off the coast of New Jersey. IIRC, the wreck was discovered in the early 90s. Like I wrote above, I'm not normally into such things, but this book fascinated me.

Seems to me that air searches for wrecked planes are usually sucessful in the first couple of days - or not at all . Those not found from the air in that time frame are usually found by folks on the ground by accident .

I don't have any facts to back this up , it just seems to be that way to me .

I'm amazed that there isn't already a plethora of conspiracy theories about the Fossett disappearance. There's certainly enough to feed such: he's a high-tech aircraft designer, multi-millionaire, and high-profile capitalist who was flying alone in Nevada. So we may soon be regaled with many oddball theories such as UFO abductions, collision with secret military craft, so-called Area 51 nonsense and more.

Look at the case of the college student who just recently drove off of the road and rolled his ride in a ditch, right off of the main highway. He lay there for a week, undiscovered, as his own father drove past the spot how many times. As I understand it, had he not crawled to the edge of the road and moved his elbow, he might still yet be there in that didtch.

Looking for an aircraft that my well have been blown into who knows how many small pieces upon impact in that wide open land might prove to be a down right endless task.

Fascinating stuff, Ken. Fascinating stuff...

Penny

It's kinda NOT surprising that they didn't find Sen. Hale Boggs, Congressman Nick Begich, Russell Brown, and pilot Don Jonz.

By 1972, we weren't yet required by the FAA ("Friendly" Aviation Agency - HA... rightttttt !~!~! ) to have working ELT's (Emergency Locator Transmitters) in our aircraft... not even in the local-flying, so-called "puddle-jumpers" or "bug squashers" like my 7KCAB Citabria.

Of course, with all the mountains in Alaska, it still would have been a "tough search" even if they had ELT's installed which, now that I think about it, might have been REQUIRED by 1972.

As I recall, the "bush-pilots" flying in Alaska had to have working ELTs on board BEFORE we had to have them in the "Lower 48"!

Does anyone remember whether or not this was true?

Shadow Divers is being made into a movie for release next year.

I am currently on my 7th reading of the book. I also have the NOVA program from PBS that covers the discovery. "Hitler's Lost Sub". Probably watched that about 50 times.

John Chatterton and Richie Kohler are big heroes of mine, outstanding divers and for them to spend the tens of thousands of dollars to identify the U-Who due to a duty they felt to the war dead - speaks volumes about their character. Chatterton being a combat medic as well.

Actually the ELT was probably useless because they probably crashed over glacially colored saltwater in Prince William Sound.

The worst part about Begich was leaving a son Mark that is our current mayor. He is unbelieveably crooked and even signed on with the Mayor of NY to control guns! He has aspiriations of higher office and I fear him. The other son Nick is at least not a politician.
art

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"With those poor guys that weren't found till years later, you could only hope that they died on impact."

Actually a friend crashed with a couple others aboard on a hanging glacier at the head of a box canyon. There was no way anyone could reach them and they remain there today. There was someone keying the mike until the battery died over a day later.
art

IIRC the ELT mandate came about in 1973 after the Boggs crash.

Piper

Ahhhhhhhhhh..... sooooooooo.....

Thanx, Piper 1 !

Has anyone heard,you can go to "Google Earth" and help search for the crash site?

"Conspiracy theories" of any kind haven't crossed my mind till now.

The dumbest thing about Fossett's disappearance (in my opinion), is that he failed to file a flight plan and even mumble to anyone in earshot where he was going and when he expected to land. Especially with his education, experience and scientific background.

Absolutely incredulous! Hope they find him alive, and thoroughly embarrassed.

Anyone remember the B-24 that coasted in and landed itself in the desert (Egypt?) after the crew had bailed out? Seems like they found it in the late 50's. Was it the "Lady Be Good?" I also remember a movie (probably made for tv) in the early 70s that dealt with the crew of a WWII bomber that had glided in in the desert. The crew was hanging around the plane. As the story developed, we figured out that it was "today" and the crew were ghosts. When the plane is discovered, each crew member would fade away as the recovery team found and bagged his remains. Was an interesting movie - would like to see it again. Best, John

I read about that one as I was following this guy doing his Brooks Range Traverse last year who happened upon the wreckage.



And the before pics of the same plane with Clarence Rhode.





Brooks Range Traverse

Interesting stuff to be sure.