Go with someone who has researched it thoroughly. There is a book by a former Muslim: Jesus and Mohamad. By age twelve he memorized the Koran. He graduated number two in a class of 6,000 from Cairo university. Early on he was an Imam. Eventually he earned a Ph.D in world religions. He is now what is called a born-again Christian. He teaches Jesus is the only way to the only God.
That's his belief. There are many others with different beliefs. It doesn't display validity for others. Christianity is on the decrease and Islam on the increase - what's the message here? Or is it all just personal belief?
I guess you didn't understand he studied the religions of the world and concluded the only true one is Christianity. The vast, vast, vast majority of people don't investigate their own beliefs, so they go with their parent's belief.
Your argument about which is growing or shrinking is irrelevant to the Truth.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Go with someone who has researched it thoroughly. There is a book by a former Muslim: Jesus and Mohamad. By age twelve he memorized the Koran. He graduated number two in a class of 6,000 from Cairo university. Early on he was an Imam. Eventually he earned a Ph.D in world religions. He is now what is called a born-again Christian. He teaches Jesus is the only way to the only God.
That's his belief. There are many others with different beliefs. It doesn't display validity for others. Christianity is on the decrease and Islam on the increase - what's the message here? Or is it all just personal belief?
I guess you didn't understand he studied the religions of the world and concluded the only true one is Christianity. The vast, vast, vast majority of people don't investigate their own beliefs, so they go with their parent's belief.
Your argument about which is growing or shrinking is irrelevant to the Truth.
Many people study comparative religion and come to different conclusions. Selecting someone who happens to agree with one's faith is biased.
Go with someone who has researched it thoroughly. There is a book by a former Muslim: Jesus and Mohamad. By age twelve he memorized the Koran. He graduated number two in a class of 6,000 from Cairo university. Early on he was an Imam. Eventually he earned a Ph.D in world religions. He is now what is called a born-again Christian. He teaches Jesus is the only way to the only God.
That's his belief. There are many others with different beliefs. It doesn't display validity for others. Christianity is on the decrease and Islam on the increase - what's the message here? Or is it all just personal belief?
I guess you didn't understand he studied the religions of the world and concluded the only true one is Christianity. The vast, vast, vast majority of people don't investigate their own beliefs, so they go with their parent's belief.
Your argument about which is growing or shrinking is irrelevant to the Truth.
Your single case example is also irrelevant but you give it credibility so you can use it to provide yourself with justification of your belief. I was pointing out an equally absurd conclusion with the statement that I made. You saw that but still didn't recognise that of your own because of your bias. End of the day it's still a personal belief.
Also, there are many people who have studied religion and become atheists despite being raised as believers. Would you still look to that guy in your case if he became atheist? I suspect that you would not because he would no longer validate your belief - he's only "credible" if he matches your belief. It's not the other way around (ie you don't follow him for his belief).
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
What if reality doesn't conform to faith? What if the truth is unpalatable? Things may not be how we would like them to be....what then? Do we just pretend that they are?
It sure appears to me you don't understand God's grace. Consider this illustration.
You receive a check for $10,000 in the mail from someone you don't know and never did work for. How much work did you do to earn it by going to the mailbox? You get in your vehicle and take the check to the bank. How much work did you do to earn the money by gong to the bank? You walk up to the teller and show your I.D. How much word did you do to earn the money by this by doing this? Now you endorse the check. How much work did you do to earn the money by endorsing the check?
The same is true of God's grace and baptism. We are not "working" to "earn" salvation by accepting God's rules for appropriating His gracious salvation.
In Timothy we are told God is the Saviour of all men, especially of believers. How many atheists and others, including believers, weren't run over by a bus today because God intervened and they weren't aware?
We finites really don't know The Infinite God of this universe.
Certainly the rain falls upon the just and unjust. Plenty of times even lives of unbelievers are spared without acknowledgement or thanks to God. How many times unbelievers even here mock answers to prayer over and over. The forum is a heathen's haven.
I've been raised Roman Catholic and plenty of Church of Christ ministers have talked with me about baptism. I know what many protestant pastors teach. They consider it a "work of grace", ordinance, or sacrament. They make it a requirement based upon their church dogmas and bylaws. I've been told that "obedience to baptism" is a requirement for salvation by these and looked up many sources to see if their statements were reflected by the denominations. These are clearly works. I've noticed that not only is obedience required, exception of infants, ones faith in Christ is shared by faith in the baptism. Baptism is in the same category as those in the N.T. who taught circumcision. It was recorded in acts and addressed in Galatians . It's not a work as one might pick up a shovel and dig a ditch. You won't work up a sweat, however it is required by certain denominations as conditional for salvation, just as some require circumcision and other sacraments. The check signing doesn't prove a doctrine. One hundred times the one book in the Bible that has the stated purpose that it was written that you may have eternal life, does indeed prove doctrine.
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
[Your single case example is also irrelevant but you give it credibility so you can use it to provide yourself with justification of your belief. I was pointing out an equally absurd conclusion with the statement that I made. You saw that but still didn't recognise that of your own because of your bias. End of the day it's still a personal belief.
Also, there are many people who have studied religion and become atheists despite being raised as believers. Would you still look to that guy in your case if he became atheist? I suspect that you would not because he would no longer validate your belief - he's only "credible" if he matches your belief. It's not the other way around (ie you don't follow him for his belief).
What if is for junior high girls. When I first met Dr. Kindell he told me, "Christians have two brains. One is lost and the other is out looking for it." By the time he graduated and earn a couple doctorates he had studied ten fields of study: Biology, geology, astronomy, etc, etc. He told me he proved himself wrong in all ten. He became a creationists. Recently he told me, "There would be a lot more Christians if we had a lot more serious skeptics."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
You post here by the grace of God. And yet you disagree with Jesus and try to convince those who will not accept Jesus Word: "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He said this AFTER the resurrection. The thief on the cross was alive with Jesus before Jesus died, much less after the resurrection.
Last edited by Ringman; 12/13/21.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
You post here by the grace of God. And yet you disagree with Jesus and try to convince those who will not accept Jesus Word: "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He said this AFTER the resurrection. The thief on the cross was alive with Jesus before Jesus died, much less after the resurrection.
You do cherry pick and hang your hat upon a single statement.
Did He not also specify that simply believing upon Him was enough for salvation?
Isn't there a site devoted to religion rather than hunting and the outdoors that would be more fitting to your throw? I would think such would be more than desired, all in the same camp and all...
The Campfires that I’ve sat around have a wide range of discussions far beyond just the outdoors.
Did He not also specify that simply believing upon Him was enough for salvation?
I don’t think water baptism…or any other external act…is necessary for salvation. It symbolizes that your old life is ending, and that you’ve started a new life following Jesus.
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
You post here by the grace of God. And yet you disagree with Jesus and try to convince those who will not accept Jesus Word: "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He said this AFTER the resurrection. The thief on the cross was alive with Jesus before Jesus died, much less after the resurrection.
You do cherry pick and hang your hat upon a single statement.
Did He not also specify that simply believing upon Him was enough for salvation?
I used to be a boss. What I told them right before I left was of utmost importance. Trying to use something else I said at a previous time did not work when someone tried to get away with something.
By the way, how did the Savior tell us to make disciples recorded at the end of Matthew? Why did Jesus' disciples baptize new believer? Because they believed the Savior.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
You post here by the grace of God. And yet you disagree with Jesus and try to convince those who will not accept Jesus Word: "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He said this AFTER the resurrection. The thief on the cross was alive with Jesus before Jesus died, much less after the resurrection.
You do cherry pick and hang your hat upon a single statement.
Did He not also specify that simply believing upon Him was enough for salvation?
I used to be a boss. What I told them right before I left was of utmost importance. Trying to use something else I said at a previous time did not work when someone tried to get away with something.
By the way, how did the Savior tell us to make disciples recorded at the end of Matthew? Why did Jesus' disciples baptize new believer? Because they believed the Savior.
Are you saying, straight out, that no Baptism equals no Salvation?
A simple yes or no will suffice. No need for an essay about your earlier life as a boss.
Isn't there a site devoted to religion rather than hunting and the outdoors that would be more fitting to your throw? I would think such would be more than desired, all in the same camp and all...
The Campfires that I’ve sat around have a wide range of discussions far beyond just the outdoors.
Same here. Isn't funny how this particular forum has thousands of subjects from politics to bathroom habits and some want to ban talk about God's Word? I remember two of the most rabid anti Christian, anti-gospel members that tried their hardest to drive away believers. Where did they go? What were their names? One had the last name Brown and the other a girl's name... Oh yeah, Rene'.
Do I believe in baptism? Yes, but not as a requirement to be saved. Apparently Jesus agreed when He told the thief next to Him on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him. No obedience to baptism was required. No promises to turn from a list of sins and clean up his life or go through catholic or protestant sacraments. That was grace. I understand that grace. I received it.
You post here by the grace of God. And yet you disagree with Jesus and try to convince those who will not accept Jesus Word: "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." He said this AFTER the resurrection. The thief on the cross was alive with Jesus before Jesus died, much less after the resurrection.
So, what are you saying? Do you believe that the thief on the cross didn't get baptized after believing in the crucified Lord because Jesus wasn't resurrected yet? If I remember correctly, John the Baptist was baptizing his converts before Jesus started His full time ministry. Even John the Baptist did not attribute spiritual forgiveness conditioned upon water baptism. When he preached salvation, in a nutshell he said that you must believe on Christ. Baptisms were not what you believe in. That was only a physical demonstration of the spiritual reality.
Go with someone who has researched it thoroughly. There is a book by a former Muslim: Jesus and Mohamad. By age twelve he memorized the Koran. He graduated number two in a class of 6,000 from Cairo university. Early on he was an Imam. Eventually he earned a Ph.D in world religions. He is now what is called a born-again Christian. He teaches Jesus is the only way to the only God.
That's his belief. There are many others with different beliefs. It doesn't display validity for others. Christianity is on the decrease and Islam on the increase - what's the message here? Or is it all just personal belief?
I guess you didn't understand he studied the religions of the world and concluded the only true one is Christianity. The vast, vast, vast majority of people don't investigate their own beliefs, so they go with their parent's belief.
Your argument about which is growing or shrinking is irrelevant to the Truth.
All you made is an Argument From Authority. Christopher Hitchens disagrees with your chosen authority:
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Isn't there a site devoted to religion rather than hunting and the outdoors that would be more fitting to your throw? I would think such would be more than desired, all in the same camp and all...
The Campfires that I’ve sat around have a wide range of discussions far beyond just the outdoors.
Of course. But, If some ass hole like the unhappy noncamper was there not doing a damn thing but pushing his perverted idea of religion, he'd get run off.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender
So, what are you saying? Do you believe that the thief on the cross didn't get baptized after believing in the crucified Lord because Jesus wasn't resurrected yet? If I remember correctly, John the Baptist was baptizing his converts before Jesus started His full time ministry. Even John the Baptist did not attribute spiritual forgiveness conditioned upon water baptism. When he preached salvation, in a nutshell he said that you must believe on Christ. Baptisms were not what you believe in. That was only a physical demonstration of the spiritual reality.
I believe Jesus. What did Jesus say? "Today you will be with Me in Paradise."
What does John's baptizing his converts have to do with what Jesus says at the end of His earthly ministry?
Your commentary on baptism does not line up with Peter's command in Acts 10. He said, "What prevents these from water baptism?"
What did Ananias tell Saul of Tarsus? Don't forget Ananias was sent by God to heal Saul and teach him. Ananis informed, "Be baptized and wash away your sins."
The early followers of Jesus accepted Jesus' teaching about water baptism. Why don't you?
One time a pastor of mine wanted one of the new converts to be baptized. She was not into it. He asked, "If it was good enough for Jesus why isn't it good enough for you?"
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
