I talked to one of the owners of tract. Told him the manner in which I wanted to test the tracking. He didn’t seem very confident I would like what I would see.
That's probably because that-co owner of Tract couldn't comprehend your "test" method.
I've had a Tract Toric 3-15x42 for five years now, which had been on a BUNCH of rifles, starting with a super-accurate .300 Winchester Magnum, which I've used to cause a lot of scopes to fail. The Tract is still adjusting just as well as a Nightforce.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Im looking at picking up the Toric 2-10x42 or the Zeiss 3-12x44. Anyone have experience with both?
I've gotten great results from a 3-12x44 Z4--so far. Haven't had it nearly as long as the 3-15x Tract I just mentioned, so don't know about how well it will hold up in the long run.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I talked to one of the owners of tract. Told him the manner in which I wanted to test the tracking. He didn’t seem very confident I would like what I would see.
That's probably because that-co owner of Tract couldn't comprehend your "test" method.
I've had a Tract Toric 3-15x42 for five years now, which had been on a BUNCH of rifles, starting with a super-accurate .300 Winchester Magnum, which I've used to cause a lot of scopes to fail. The Tract is still adjusting just as well as a Nightforce.
Based on your assessment I bought a Tract 3X15X50, I found the scope to be outstanding. I now have 3 Tract scopes and 2 pair of Tract binoculars. They are excellent and at the price point the best deal in optics
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I have the Toric and V4 Zeiss scopes. Both are excellent. V4 gets the nod if you want illuminated reticles or something a little more exotic than the BDC or T Plex reticle that Tract offers but as far as lens quality, I could use either one without issues.
I recently emailed Tract about illuminated plex reticles and they said they will have two models coming out probably in January with this feature. Some of their current models have this, but I don't want something that looks like a physics equation for a scope reticle. I pretty much just want an illuminated X that marks the aiming point for my old eyes, preferably in the 2-10x range. That's just me.
"...why, land is the only thing in the world worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for,... because it is the only thing that lasts."
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
I'm not talking about glass or feature set, but build quality/durability/mechanical robustness.
I talked to one of the owners of tract. Told him the manner in which I wanted to test the tracking. He didn’t seem very confident I would like what I would see.
That's probably because that-co owner of Tract couldn't comprehend your "test" method.
I've had a Tract Toric 3-15x42 for five years now, which had been on a BUNCH of rifles, starting with a super-accurate .300 Winchester Magnum, which I've used to cause a lot of scopes to fail. The Tract is still adjusting just as well as a Nightforce.
You know what go phhhuck yourself, John. When you come up with your own way of testing a scope and can tell me the tracking error to within 1% get back to me. Until then keep bloviating your bull$hit.
I never said the scope would fail just that the owner of the company didn’t seem like he wanted anyone to know. I did test my Zeiss 3-12 v4 and if I remember right it was about 1%. The 3-12 has capped turrets so it’s not meant to dial. The 4-16 v4’s are zero error on both my samples.
The 3-12 Zeiss is probably bigger and heavier than the tract. Tract is still Japanese. Probably a good scope
I talked to one of the owners of tract. Told him the manner in which I wanted to test the tracking. He didn’t seem very confident I would like what I would see.
That's probably because that-co owner of Tract couldn't comprehend your "test" method.
Maybe someone should have sent the Jons this...
Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
You know what go phhhuck yourself, John. When you come up with your own way of testing a scope and can tell me the tracking error to within 1% get back to me. Until then keep bloviating your bull$hit.
No greater bullshít than you continuing to espouse that your method is capable of determining tracking error to within 1% - despite multiple discussions regarding precision and statistics with people who know same.
You know what go phhhuck yourself, John. When you come up with your own way of testing a scope and can tell me the tracking error to within 1% get back to me. Until then keep bloviating your bull$hit.
No greater bullshít than you continuing to espouse that your method is capable of determining tracking error to within 1% - despite multiple discussions regarding precision and statistics with people who know same.
Posted this before, but it looks well designed and executed. No Tracts as yet, but I may post a request. Skip to 7:30
I sought advice from a certain writer some time ago concerning scopes, one who has tested many, one whose advice has been gained by experience, over many years, and a Tract Toric was one of the scopes recommended for the hunting I do. I purchased a 2x10 Toric and it’s everything I was told it would be. I now own 5 of there scopes and will likely own more. The optics are superb, the adjustments crisp and sure, and they’re tough. After three years of hunting these scopes in the Rockies and the mountains of WV, I have gained enough confidence in them to know they will “be there” when I pull the trigger. I’m simply a still hunter and don’t twist before I shoot and they work for me. Trust the advice of someone who has put them through their paces and knows, I did, you wont regret it.
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
I'm not talking about glass or feature set, but build quality/durability/mechanical robustness.
Jordan, How many Tracts do you own?
I have NXS and the Tract is in every way a quality/durable/mechanical/robustness equal, for less cost as a bonus
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
I'm not talking about glass or feature set, but build quality/durability/mechanical robustness.
Jordan, How many Tracts do you own?
I have NXS and the Tract is in every way a quality/durable/mechanical/robustness equal, for less cost as a bonus
Have you disassembled both scopes to look? What tests have you done to determine this? What tests does tract do to check this? Are you aware that nightforce checks every scope with a culminator that includes measuring the tracking and subjecting the scope to impact and rechecking it? Does tract do the same thing?
My comments aren’t a bash tract session. They are Japanese built for the most part. I am a huge advocate and supporter of more Japanese built optics. I don’t expect the 1” models to be as solidly built. Their cheaper scopes look like phillipene made? I think years ago formadillo tested a tract. Someone needs to dig up a link. Tract has several models to say all of them track legit is making a statement you can’t know for certain of.
It’s so funny I told my wife about this thread when I first posted with exactly what the response would be. Question something a guy spends money on and instead of a debate on the merits. It’s attack the messenger. Again I am not bashing tract. Almost certainly they are lots better than your run of the mill vortex. Likely better than most optics on the market.
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
I'm not talking about glass or feature set, but build quality/durability/mechanical robustness.
Jordan, How many Tracts do you own?
I have NXS and the Tract is in every way a quality/durable/mechanical/robustness equal, for less cost as a bonus
Have you disassembled both scopes to look? What tests have you done to determine this? What tests does tract do to check this? Are you aware that nightforce checks every scope with a culminator that includes measuring the tracking and subjecting the scope to impact and rechecking it? Does tract do the same thing?
My comments aren’t a bash tract session. They are Japanese built for the most part. I am a huge advocate and supporter of more Japanese built optics. I don’t expect the 1” models to be as solidly built. Their cheaper scopes look like phillipene made? I think years ago formadillo tested a tract. Someone needs to dig up a link. Tract has several models to say all of them track legit is making a statement you can’t know for certain of.
It’s so funny I told my wife about this thread when I first posted with exactly what the response would be. Question something a guy spends money on and instead of a debate on the merits. It’s attack the messenger. Again I am not bashing tract. Almost certainly they are lots better than your run of the mill vortex. Likely better than most optics on the market.
The same test I do for any scope I own. I mount the scope on a file and I use it. When sighting in Tracts adjust precisely every time in my experience. I have a 35 Whelen that a hunt with here in Louisiana. My season starts on October 23 and ends January 31. That rifle stays in my truck and travels rough country gathering in hay fields pulling horse/cattle trailers, etc. Never a hitch with the Tract, in fact I regularly shoot different bullets and record the turret setting from each, I can set with out shooting each time and the Tracting proves to be spot on each time.
I've found many scopes do not stay zeroed bouncing around in a vehicle but the Tract has never bobbled. I've have an NSX develope a 1/2MOA error under those conditions and had to be sent in. So far the Tract hasn't missed a beat.
Optics are better than the NXS and rival my S&B's
I will own my Tracts as time goes on
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I zeroed the 220 Hammer Hunter 2911 FPS @200 yards, when I switch to the 225 TSX doing 2850 FPS I have to increase the elevation 1 1/2 MOA for the same 200 yard zero. The Tract never fails with perfect tracking. I go from one to the other regularly
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
The following is my opinion based on experience with the scopes.
I've been using a Toric 2-10x42 for several years now. I think it may be the best value for the $ of any rifle scope made when glass quality is important to the buyer. It's been extremely dependable in dialing and I love Tract's capped/zero stopped dial....great for a hunting scope. All around great scope for hunting in a 1" package. Great glass, great user characteristics/options, very reliable.
I feel like it's build quality is right there with a NF SHV 3-10. I've been using, and currently use, 2 of the 3-10 SHV's over the past couple of years. The 3-10 may take a bit more physical abuse from external forces since it's 30mm and shorter but that's about it. To my eyes I prefer the glass and user characteristics of the Toric.
I don't feel that the Toric will be able to withstand the same abuse as the 2.5-10 NXS. The bonded lenses, tube thickness, etc of the NXS are made for abuse. To my eyes, I much prefer the glass quality and user characteristics of the Toric to any of the NXS I use (for hunting)...and I'm using 4 of the NXS 2.5-10's right now.
I can't speak to the Zeiss as I don't use one. I don't think you can go wrong with the 2-10x42 Toric, great scope.
They're solid scopes. I'd put the Toric right there with Nightforce as far as quality but with better glass.
Which NF model are you comparing with the Toric? Pretty tough for any scope to keep up with the NXS or ATACR when it comes to build quality, given NF priorities and QC process.
I can't comment on the ATACR as I haven't used one. I do own an NXS 3-15x50 and an SHV 4-14x50 F1. The SHV 4-15x50F1 isn't even in the same league as the Tract and it's a similar price to the Toric. When I say league, I'm talking 5 mil revolution vs 10 as well as the Tract having superior glass, eyebox and reticle. The SHV is critical on eye relief as well. It's a piss-poor offering from Nightforce. The NXS is a good scope that is repeatable but the glass can't hang with the Tract. Not to hurt feelings...That's my take on it.
I'm not talking about glass or feature set, but build quality/durability/mechanical robustness.
Jordan, How many Tracts do you own?
I have NXS and the Tract is in every way a quality/durable/mechanical/robustness equal, for less cost as a bonus
Have you disassembled both scopes to look? What tests have you done to determine this? What tests does tract do to check this? Are you aware that nightforce checks every scope with a culminator that includes measuring the tracking and subjecting the scope to impact and rechecking it? Does tract do the same thing?
My comments aren’t a bash tract session. They are Japanese built for the most part. I am a huge advocate and supporter of more Japanese built optics. I don’t expect the 1” models to be as solidly built. Their cheaper scopes look like phillipene made? I think years ago formadillo tested a tract. Someone needs to dig up a link. Tract has several models to say all of them track legit is making a statement you can’t know for certain of.
It’s so funny I told my wife about this thread when I first posted with exactly what the response would be. Question something a guy spends money on and instead of a debate on the merits. It’s attack the messenger. Again I am not bashing tract. Almost certainly they are lots better than your run of the mill vortex. Likely better than most optics on the market.
The same test I do for any scope I own. I mount the scope on a file and I use it. When sighting in Tracts adjust precisely every time in my experience. I have a 35 Whelen that a hunt with here in Louisiana. My season starts on October 23 and ends January 31. That rifle stays in my truck and travels rough country gathering in hay fields pulling horse/cattle trailers, etc. Never a hitch with the Tract, in fact I regularly shoot different bullets and record the turret setting from each, I can set with out shooting each time and the Tracting proves to be spot on each time.
I've found many scopes do not stay zeroed bouncing around in a vehicle but the Tract has never bobbled. I've have an NSX develope a 1/2MOA error under those conditions and had to be sent in. So far the Tract hasn't missed a beat.
Optics are better than the NXS and rival my S&B's
I will own my Tracts as time goes on
jwp,
What was the verdict when you sent in the NXS? A 1/2 MOA shift in zero from bouncing around in a truck could be caused by a shift in mounts, bedding, or scope internals, so I'm curious if the scope was at fault.
