Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Birth of Christ

What Jesus said seems to me like it's self explanatory.
He offered the man a free gift. Receiving it is based on whether or not Nicodemus believes on the Son of God.
If he doesn't want to believe that, he remains condemned and the wrath of God abides on him.

It's a choice. You can take it or leave it. The benefits or consequences are according to your decision. Details below.

You shouldn't believe it, because it's not true.

The two genealogies don't match at all. There's absolutely no way they could both be true.
So much for inspired by an all knowing god....heck he can't even get the genealogies to match.

So it's ok for religious people to travel the world to know on people's door to try and convert them, but it's unacceptable for the non-religious to debate you on an internet forum?

Really?

And who started this thread?

Was it started by atheist trying to proselytize, or one of the Christian Zealots?

Don't waste your time explaining the genealogies guys.
It won't matter to the snipper.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Because there is no honest explanation.

Happy Camper. And I am wondering about him. I suspect there is an interesting story of a troubled man.

My post has nothing to do with you.

You just made my point. Why do you care? If somebody in another religion talks to me, I just politely turn them down and we part ways. I might even discuss my Church with them.....I certainly don't get angry.

7/22/20 – (Explanation for HC’s personality disorder?)
Believe it or not, this happened to me at a mall.
Instead of a hoe, it was a steel "I" beam and security gate chainlink. Free fell full speed with no resistance out of the ceiling directly onto my head. Nearly killed me. This happened the day after I insulted my very smart, awesome Dad. I was arrogant, frustrated and said something unkind to him. This wasn't karma. It was God humbling me, by using a store attendant who purposely pushed the button to drop it on my head.
The medical physicians said that I had no hope of recovery.
The Good Lord (The Great Physician), gave me healing in spite of my sin. I deserved to die that day.
It's not supposed to happen but my brain works now. Some would say otherwise and might be right.
Couldn't remember so much as a 7 digit phone number from the page to dial.... after studying it a while.

Doesn't sound like much has changed.

6/21/20 – (Happy Caamper is violently attacked by a “phag” who sends him “flying off a hill”.)
The same thing happened when I was a little boy and a phag came up to me out of the blue like that.
My head split open on a solid steel gas meter way below, after flying off the hill.


TBIs, Traumatic Brain Injuries, he's just not right in the head.

You remind me a a guy I once had a spirited conversation with. He challenged my statement that the NIV Bible I had given him was the “word of God.” He got a triumphant look on his face and pulled down a KJV and showed me how the verses didn’t match! I was incredulous as this guy was no fool, successful in life and pretty well educated. How could he not understand the concept of “translation.”

I explained that the NIV and the KJV were just different translations by different people at different times. The look on his face was one of the sudden recognition ….. and then of absolute rage….he saw that I was right in my explanation but could not bring himself to admit his error. He closed off the conversation by loudly proclaiming…. again…. that neither Bible could be right because the words weren’t the same. I thought that this was “triumphant indignation” by a guy who was totally wrong…. knew it, but could not admit it.

You see, he was happy, secure and self confidant in his ignorance. His ignorance allowed him to believe all kinds of untruth.

He did not seek any truth and in fact was repelled by it.

Now, if AS really wanted to understand the “two genealogies” issue, he could easily do an internet search and see a number of logical and well thought out studies and explanations. BUT…..AS does not want to. He is simply comfortable in his ignorance and it looks like he is going to stay there.

If anyone wants to study this issue, simply do an internet search of the “two genealogies of Jesus.”

I've read those alleged "explanations", they are nothing of the sorts, and do no comport with the words on the paper.

As for the variances in translations etc., again not consistent with what would be expected from the all powerful, all loving, all knowing creator of the universe.

Hastings,

I don’t see the virgin birth of Jesus as being an essential belief; Christianity doesn’t rest on the virgin birth of Jesus. The most significant element of Christianity is the resurrection of Jesus. If someone can predict their own death and resurrection…and pull it off…I’m not real concerned about how they got into the world. Christianity rests on the resurrection of Jesus.

We don't have a first hand account. What we have is written by believer's decades after the described events....with some embellishment in order for Jesus to fulfil prophesy, errors and all.

God raised Jesus from the dead. Matthew who was an eyewitness tells us so and wrote about it and believed it, Mark who knew eyewitnesses wrote about it and believed it, Luke who thoroughly investigated these things wrote about it and believed it, Peter who was an eyewitness wrote about it and believed it, John who was an eyewitness wrote about it and believed it, and James (the brother of Jesus) who did not follow Jesus during His earthly ministry, who showed up late to the game, who shows up after the resurrection and becomes a leader in the Jerusalem church, believed his brother died and was buried and rose from the dead, and referred to his brother as his Lord.

There are actually more than 15,000 New Testament manuscripts (from fragments to complete New Testaments) - 5,000 in Ancient Greek alone - way more than what exists for any other ancient Jewish, Greek, or Roman historical literature. Historians typically consider themselves fortunate to have ancient manuscripts numbering in double figures…!

The oldest known fragment of the Gospel dates to A.D. 125...within one generation of the documents original composition. At least several centuries elapse between the oldest existing copies and the original composition of most other ancient historical works. And the Gospel was written within living memory of all of the writers. Our best surviving biography of Alexander the Great comes from nearly five hundred years after his death...! And it’s considered extremely reliable…!

Back then, as today, writers of history wrote from particular perspectives and chose which information they decided to emphasize and which information they decided to omit. They depended on prior sources, written or oral, that they believed conveyed reliable and accurate information. Non-believers of the historicity of the Gospel clearly do not hold all of ancient recorded history to the same standards that they ‘selectively’ apply to the Gospel. The Gospel reports real events and real teachings of Jesus. Non-believers clearly don’t like that. But there it is.

That mentions eyewitnesses, but from the eyewitnesses themselves we have nothing. We don't know what they saw.

If someone were to write a biography today of Caesar, John F. Kennedy, Douglas McArthur, or Saladin…to discount them outright because none of them were a “first hand account” or because they were all written “decades after the described events” would be ludicrous.

Why can't you just answer the fuqking question? Jfc, I didn't ask you some complicated bullsheit, just answer yes or no. Wtf is wrong with you church flunkies?

There are multiple lines of evidence to support the existence of John F Kennedy, Caesar, et al.