I realize I may be painting with a broad brush initially, but what whitetail cartridge uses the least amount of powder and will still cleanly and ethically kill a whitetail in Eastern Hardwoods out to 200 yards?
ETA: components for said cartridge must be reasonably easy to obtain; current situation aside.
Last edited by StudDuck; 01/20/22.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
As I understand it, it's difficult to reload a .22lr, but point well-taken and I agree, although a .22 Mag is a bit better option IMO.
I was thinking along the lines of a 204 Ruger or 22 Hornet, but wanted to get opinions here.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
To me, based on cost and availability of all components, a 223 is the slam dunk objective answer, in my opinion.
_________________________________________________________________________ “Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
This is slightly different than you asked, but cast bullets work well with certain fast powders and really do fairly well. An example is I use 12 grains unique in my 358 Win under a 160 grain bullet which propels it to 1650 fps. Some guys do something similar in a 30-06 pushing a 170 grain bullet to maybe 1800 fps. Cast out of lead that is not too brittle and with a hollow point that would be very effective out to 200 yards. So if you are looking purely at powder savings, that would be a viable option.
......the occasional hunter wielding a hopelessly inaccurate rifle, living by the fantastical rule that this cartridge can deliver the goods, regardless of shot placement or rifle accuracy. The correct term for this is minute of ego.
223 is probably my answer here. It has worked for me. Still, I'd rather use something with a bit more mass, like a lightly loaded 6.5CM/7mm-08 or a full-house 6.8spc/6.5Grendel, as I like a decent blood trail on a lung-shot runner.
Pure lead projectile in a muzzle loader - perhaps the cheapest. 223 with a non-varmint bullet of perhaps 55 grains. I would not go with smaller than a 222 with jacketed bullets.
When I was young we could only afford cast bullets and the rifles were $10 Springfields - it worked. Any 30 caliber cartridge from 30-30 on up would work as well. With the cartridges I have on hand though I think a 375 Win with cast bullets would be my choice or perhaps my muzzle loader.
If you’re going to shoot cast, I think 30 caliber to be minimum (maybe 7mm). The larger the caliber the better to a point for effectiveness.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
Some of seafire’s blue dot reduced loads may qualify here. I’m using 19.1 grains in a .260.
Good point. And if you are stretching things to 200yds, some of the 4198/RL7 light-loads are good too. A 120gr 6.5mm or 7mm at 2500+/-fps with 30-ish gr of powder is right there with a 6.8spc or 6.5 Grendel load, but may allow you to use a rifle you already own. They are fun to shoot but still deadly, I know that much.
I’d say a 223 with a Bear Claw bullet. I’ve hit 200 lb pigs at 225 yards, gone through both shoulders to parts unknown. A 62 Barnes will also. 26 grains of CFE 223. I wouldn’t be nervous about deer hunting with a 223 out to 200 yards, but have bigger toys to use.
If as your original post stated you want the least amount of powder then 223 is probably your best bet although if you limited yourself to 100 yards a 357Mag rifle would be the way to go. If you want least cost then cast bullets are the way to go since all else being equal, bullets are the most expensive component. 100 yards is easy, 200 yards and you best pick your shots and know your trajectory.
Last edited by Blacktailer; 01/20/22.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
That's just what people want to do IMO all the bases for hunting firearms were covered decades before I was ever a molecule
I wouldn't feel bad restricted to a 30/30 for the hunting I do in the places I've hunted. There's years and years worth of ammo and components already made up sitting in storerooms here and there
What are your game laws in WV? If .22 CF's are legal I would go with a .22 Hornet if shots were close-ish, .223 if 200 yards were a genuine possibility. Several relatives have killed a train car full of deer in PA with the Hornet where it's perfectly legal.
I'm a lead bullet caster/shooter from way back and have great success with .30's, so that's another approach I can recommend. Fire up the old .30-30, get yourself a mould that throws 180-190 grain flat nosed, cast them relatively soft, and drive them at 1800fps give or take, and make room in the freezer.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
6.5 Grendel has worked well for us. Very accurate in the Howa Mini Action and used on deer out to 250 yards this year. 100g Nosler BT. Very light recoil.
Another choice would be the 6.5 or 7 TCU. Uses .223 brass, very little powder and when using light bullets performs extremely well on whitetails out to 200 yards. I have used a 7TCU and 120 grain Nosler BTs to kill my two biggest bucks so far.
IMO, a Grendel with 100-123 grain bullets, or even up to the 130, and a 6.8 SPC using something like a 120 ProHunter, will beat anything out of a 223. That's not to knock the 223, because I know there are those who consider it a perfectly acceptable deer cartridge............something I don't do, but having shot seer with a 223 and a 6.8 SPC, the larger caliber was the winner as far as I'm concerned.
Lots of good choices that burn 30gr of powder or less. Grendel-like cartridges might have an edge if trajectory, good bullet weight, and bullet selection are factored in. Some others like the .350 Legend might require more holdover figgering than one might get under hunting conditions.
In WV, any centerfire is legal, so it’s a good place to do “research” if one is so inclined.
I appreciate all the replies, LOTS of good calibers mentioned.
The 223/5.56 would probably the all-around winner on this one due to availability of components, powder expended, etc.
I do appreciate the mention of the 357 Mag or similar pistol caliber carbines.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
Since you state 200 yards, I'd take the 22-250 over the 223 due to the 400+ fps velocity increase. I've now shot several deer with the old 60 gr Hornady hp loaded to 3500 fps. Every deer so far has been DRT. I have Wincherster 64 gr sp on deck for when the Hornady's are gone.
My kids and I have killed several deer with a 223 and have had great results. With that being said the room for shot placement error is very low with a 223. For what you are looking for .264 projectile would fit the bill.
StudDuck i do load 22 magnums when i need some with any special bullet needed , i have a few 1,000 new 22 mag.cases with the primer paste on them, dies & the rest as needed , plus a 40X 22 mag. test rifle
The 300 Savage is about right. I believe it is still the most efficient thirty.
I agree that the 300 Savage is quite efficient on White tails. You can use non-premium bullets or even cast. I've used 150 grain Hornady Interlocks with good results.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
Since you state 200 yards, I'd take the 22-250 over the 223 due to the 400+ fps velocity increase. I've now shot several deer with the old 60 gr Hornady hp loaded to 3500 fps. Every deer so far has been DRT. I have Wincherster 64 gr sp on deck for when the Hornady's are gone.
I just looked and did not see any Hornady 60grain HP in .224 listed.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
I’d say a 223 with a Bear Claw bullet. I’ve hit 200 lb pigs at 225 yards, gone through both shoulders to parts unknown. A 62 Barnes will also. 26 grains of CFE 223. I wouldn’t be nervous about deer hunting with a 223 out to 200 yards, but have bigger toys to use.
Yep. A 62 gr Barnes or a 60 gr Partition works very well.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
I’ll chime in with the .257Bob. Hell of an old classic whitetail round. Crosses the magic 100 gr projectile threshold and is pretty damned efficient while maintaining a good velocity. I will second the .357 Mag in a carbine. However, due to its relatively small diameter, I had some issues with terminal performance using cast. Switched to the 158 gr Rem SP jacketed and problem solved. Many deer killed with this combo. If you have to use cast, I would recommend.44 cal and higher, at which point you might exceed your efficiency desires.
I used to be 6mm or bigger but the 223's don't seem to have much problem. Funny after so many threads on how 243 are wounders.
Still, for bigger deer, whether real or imagined, I feel more confident pointing my 260 or 270 at them than my 6mm........unfounded but true.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
6mmx222 or 25x222. Pretty slim appetite for powder.
If you make that a 6mmx223 or 25x223 it meets the OP's criteria of "reasonably available components".
My 6x47 (6x222Mag) with 85gr Partitions does a great job, (grand kids love it!) but it I were building it today, I'd go with the 6X45 due to the availability of brass.
I used to be 6mm or bigger but the 223's don't seem to have much problem. Funny after so many threads on how 243 are wounders.
Still, for bigger deer, whether real or imagined, I feel more confident pointing my 260 or 270 at them than my 6mm........unfounded but true.
I agree to an extent, but with new bullet construction and some older bullets like a Nosler PT AND an ethical shot, I don't have a problem.
For the record, I don't deer hunt with a 223, but in the event of another component shortage, I want to be able to enjoy deer hunting, hence my question.
I appreciate all the responses, there's some bright minds on the Fire.
24HCF in its entirety, is solely responsible for why my children do not have college funds, my mortgage isn't paid-off and why I will never retire early enough to enjoy the remainder of my life.
Telling you 7.62x39 is very underrated and abundant.
Took my first deer over 100 yard with a mini 30. Took many a hog with my go to walkabout hog gun, an SKS. The commy 30-30. Loaded up back when a box of ammo was like a dollar at Cheaper Than Dirt back when it reminded you of that mil surplus scene with Michael Douglas in Falling Down.
For a do all truck gun I think a newer mini 30 or even mini 14 is about perfect. I just can't warm up to AR's..
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
Telling you 7.62x39 is very underrated and abundant.
Took my first deer over 100 yard with a mini 30. Took many a hog with my go to walkabout hog gun, an SKS. The commy 30-30. Loaded up back when a box of ammo was like a dollar at Cheaper Than Dirt back when it reminded you of that mil surplus scene with Michael Douglas in Falling Down.
For a do all truck gun I think a newer mini 30 or even mini 14 is about perfect. I just can't warm up to AR's..
I know what you’re saying about mini 30 vs. AR. But I built an AR 47? Before the panic buying for around $400. I had a Stripped lower for $50 and complete kit (minus the lower) for $350 But my cz 527 is moa shooter with silver bears and handles like a dream. Almost like I’m holding a red rider
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
A .256 win or a .270 Ren are very frugal on powder but 200 Yds may be a stretch for them..................otherwise I go with the crowd and consider a .223 in the ballpark you are looking for.
Telling you 7.62x39 is very underrated and abundant.
Took my first deer over 100 yard with a mini 30. Took many a hog with my go to walkabout hog gun, an SKS. The commy 30-30. Loaded up back when a box of ammo was like a dollar at Cheaper Than Dirt back when it reminded you of that mil surplus scene with Michael Douglas in Falling Down.
For a do all truck gun I think a newer mini 30 or even mini 14 is about perfect. I just can't warm up to AR's..
I know what you’re saying about mini 30 vs. AR. But I built an AR 47? Before the panic buying for around $400. I had a Stripped lower for $50 and complete kit (minus the lower) for $350 But my cz 527 is moa shooter with silver bears and handles like a dream. Almost like I’m holding a red rider
Yeah I always had a hankering for a 527. Maybe 221 Fireball or a Hornet - or 222........ I have a 550. shoot anything I throw in it decent enough- and often GREAT
That set trigger just rocks.
When a country is well governed, poverty and a mean condition are something to be ashamed of. When a country is ill governed, riches and honors are something to be ashamed of . Confucius
6mmx222 or 25x222. Pretty slim appetite for powder.
If you make that a 6mmx223 or 25x223 it meets the OP's criteria of "reasonably available components".
My 6x47 (6x222Mag) with 85gr Partitions does a great job, (grand kids love it!) but it I were building it today, I'd go with the 6X45 due to the availability of brass.
Pretty simple to make 6mmx222 or 25x222 from 223 brass. And I’ve had no trouble finding lots of 222 brass.
Chronographs, bore scopes and pattern boards have broke a lot of hearts.
I bought a 6mm arc. 29 grains of powder. will let you guys know this fall
I can up date right now sharing the bolt action 6mm Arc is very much up to the task at hand in the right hands. CZ527 22 " barrel 108 grain Elite hunter over 29.4 gr of LVR. w very minimal recoil. Turned the lights out on this guy in instantaneous fashion at 254 yards.
I am aware of folks using 22 & even 17 Hornet as well as 223 & must say I feel much better with the 6mm ARC.
FYI I tried the savage AXIS in 6mm ARC primarily for fire forming brass. forming 220 Russian to 6mm ARC. She did OK though I was not impressed with the magazine. More challenging to load than Id care for and did not feed spire point reloads well at all. Though the accuracy was satisfactory with the right reloads,
I can’t believe nobody has mentioned the 6.5 Creedmoor!!! They are so deadly you don’t ever have to shoot at the deer, just wave the cartridge in the air and the deer with be drt!
I’m really not making fun of the 6.5cm, it’s a running joke a buddy and I have. We both have one, neither of us have killed anything with them yet so we joke… Actually, found out last season that mine, a CZ 557 American Synthetic, is too stinking heavy to carry around in the deer woods. That wasn’t fun at all! I’ll be carrying something lighter next year, CVA Cascade probably.
Cast bullets are the way to go. Biggest expense is the primer and you’ll have that no matter what centerfire you’re shooting.
For out to 200 yards the 6.5 grendel, its wildcats, or 6.8 SPC or its wildcats ought to cover you. Those fit in an AR platform thus are small (limited in charge weight), but are demonstrated deer-getters.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/KTFa6j5m.jpg)
