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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
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As Jeff Foxworthy would say, “If you think SLOW BULLETS blow through steel, you might be a _______” 😂 ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/prNR03Nd/98-D82330-FDEF-4-CEE-AEAA-0-C8660951-B98.jpg)
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,199
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 5,199 |
With both of my 22-250's, I had, they were not fussy at all. I shot IMR 4895 , 4064 and 4350 , H414, H380 ( military ) and likely some others . The both liked Sierra 52 gr. hollow points the best. My Savage 12v in .223 Rem. seems to like Varget the best and a 52 gr. Hornady or Sierra .
But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,295
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,295 |
Mine settled on 38 gr of H380 and 52 gr Hornady’s. Not extremely hot but hot enough and ACCURATE.
Or is it the 53gr match…..Have to go check.
Last edited by papalondog; 01/23/22.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,744
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,744 |
Every gun I have does pretty well with my hand loads, and the shotguns and rim fires either shoot or get traded off.
Actually since I don’t shoot trap anymore and Wifey don’t want another dog, my shotguns don’t see as much use. My trap partner died, and without a rabbit dog, and since shells are hard to come by, I got no use for them.
I’ve got a couple 16s and a Mec loader for them. Other than that I devote most of my time into shooting and loading for rifles here at home.
Ben was pretty exited about shooting over a chronograph, and I was thinking about seeing where the limits are.
But as others have pointed out, speed kills barrels and actions as well as animals.
I’m gonna experiment a little, but I like my guns too much to risk hurting them.
7mm
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 646
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 646 |
My Savage 12FV loves a 40 gr. ballistic tip over enough 4064 to hit 4,000 fps. This load has inducted countless ground squirrels into the Red Mist Club.
I scored a few pounds of CFE223 I'm anxious to try this spring. I haven't found a ball powder that groups as well as 4064, but it would be nice if CFE223 turns out good so I can use a Dillon powder measure on my RL550.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 295
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CFE is good, but I have also had good luck with 2000mr, which is also a ball powder.
Dont frown on 748 either
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,744
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,744 |
I’ve got almost all extruded powder, other than the H335 such is flake. I got a Lee Perfect Powder Measure years ago, and it does really well with extruded powder. I set it to throw .2 or .3 grains under what I’m using, and trickle in the rest. I like to use a powder that will mostly fill the case, so you can spot any goof ups before the Bullet gets seated. About the only tools I use that are new is an electronic scale. I broke down and bought one when my Lyman balance scale got wobbly.  7mm
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,653 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel. Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected... Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome. try it, you might find the same results Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself. If you overrun a bullet jacket and lead anatomy in the bullet comes apart and does not penetrate adequately it is not in good on animals. Real fast bullets may put holes in still targets very true. But the hunting situation is why fast twist small caliber rifles are getting popular. I have an eight twist 22-250 shooting 88 grain elds shoots plenty of speed very accurate and is very dear Worthy. But I keep the velocity down in that 3100 range I have a 1-14" ROT Ruger 77V and a Savage 16 Weather Warrior 1-12" ROT and I feed them 52-55 grain bullets for varmints and deer. If I want a heavier bullet I grab a 250-3000 Savage 99 or Ruger 77 and load 87 grain Speer HotCors.
You're Welcome At My Fire Anytime
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 295
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 295 |
No flies on 335..Use it.
BL-C, 335, 748..Pick one..Use it...There isnt much more than a grain or so difference
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,780
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,780 |
H380 3031 have been good for mine
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,187
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,187 |
As Jeff Foxworthy would say, “If you think SLOW BULLETS blow through steel, you might be a _______” 😂 You do understand that Seafire is talking about thin skinned bullets, varmint bullets, right.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 426
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 426 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so..
otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them..
I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity.
and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can...
you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all...
your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode....
slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it..
but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel. Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected... Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome. try it, you might find the same results I can’t say I’ve seen completely opposite results but definitely not the same. Not positive on the thickness, either 3/8 or 1/2, but when I hit them with a 50gr bullet loaded upwards of 3600fps, it bores a hole through them every time. But, I never shot them with a slower 50gr bullet to see the result. Usually it was a 308 or something like that going quite a bit slower and they never penetrated completely. We were always amazed at the penetrating power of the 22-250. But, I’m always up for experimenting so I’ll load some stuff up and try them. Maybe this weekend if I can get through the snow to my shooting range.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,777
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,777 |
I've got several of those plates around here somewhere....If I come across them, I'll post pics and you guys can derive your own conclusions...
bullets being used were Hornady 55 gr SP and FMJs...
Saw the exact same thing with Nosler 55 grain B/Tips in 6mm out of a 243...
What I am saying is this is where the structural integrity of the bullet overcomes the structural integrity of the steel plates...
]and then the exact opposite when speed is cranked up to 3100 fps MV...
maybe a target bullet or hunting bullets, It can be the exact opposite... I haven't really tested it...
but questioning it because you never saw it, I've stated the parameters that I have seen it happen...
So instead of jumping to conclusions, test it yourself...
I didn't post this just to be contrary and start an argument with someone... name calling comes naturally on its own on the campfire often enough...
on another note, I've had plenty of people question using Blue Dot for reduced loads.... with all sorts of variations of slander going with it..
but when I've asked them have they ever tried it... a common response would be "NO... I'm smart enough to not to have to..."
well people thought the world was flat once.... let your conscience be your guides...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,370
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,370 |
42gr of Varget with a 40 gr Vmax one of my best varmint loads.
RUMs are like woman in Stiletto heals, you know they are going to put you in the poor house, but that has never stopped anyone from pursuing them.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 |
45 grn TSX for anything less than 100 lbs.
62grn TSX for anything less than 200 lbs.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 863
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 863 |
I always used W760 for the ease of metering. It never shot real fast, but with 50g BT, it shot well and made me a fan of hunting prairie dogs on sunny winter days with snow on the ground.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,835
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,835 |
I've got several of those plates around here somewhere....If I come across them, I'll post pics and you guys can derive your own conclusions...
bullets being used were Hornady 55 gr SP and FMJs...
Saw the exact same thing with Nosler 55 grain B/Tips in 6mm out of a 243...
What I am saying is this is where the structural integrity of the bullet overcomes the structural integrity of the steel plates...
]and then the exact opposite when speed is cranked up to 3100 fps MV...
maybe a target bullet or hunting bullets, It can be the exact opposite... I haven't really tested it...
but questioning it because you never saw it, I've stated the parameters that I have seen it happen...
So instead of jumping to conclusions, test it yourself...
I didn't post this just to be contrary and start an argument with someone... name calling comes naturally on its own on the campfire often enough...
on another note, I've had plenty of people question using Blue Dot for reduced loads.... with all sorts of variations of slander going with it..
but when I've asked them have they ever tried it... a common response would be "NO... I'm smart enough to not to have to..."
well people thought the world was flat once.... let your conscience be your guides... With your reasoning that at velocities at 3100 and above, the bullet WON’T penetrate regular steel, it just splatters, and at lesser velocities the steel is defeated, it follows that every bullet fired under the “magic” 3100 fps mark should penetrate steel. Steel plates on every range should be full of holes from slow bullets! C’mon man!
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,835
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I always used W760 for the ease of metering. It never shot real fast, but with 50g BT, it shot well and made me a fan of hunting prairie dogs on sunny winter days with snow on the ground. W-760 or H-414 (same powders) have always been my go-to powder for the 22-250 with 55 grainers
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Velocity is the true enemy of your AR500 target. At 100 yards I have seen .22-250 rounds go through 3/8" thick AR500 steel. The fast velocities (above 3,000 fps at impact) concentrated on a small caliber round create a lot of heat and pressure where it strikes the target. This in turn creates the pits that slowly (or quickly) chip away at our targets. In the picture below you can see the difference 50 yards makes to the target. I highlighted the diameter of the actual pitting because at 100 yards the pit is so shallow that the lead splatters outside of the actual "crater" and removes some paint making the pit look larger than it is in the photo. At 50 yards the pit is deeper with more defined edges resulting in no paint being removed. In most cases, the thickness of the target has no bearing on the amount of damage that it will sustain, the benefit to going thicker is that it won't warp from larger caliber rounds. One exception being .22-250 wherein it will poke holes in 3/8" thick AR500 and will only leave a large crater in 1/2" thick AR500 leaving the other side of the target in good shape.
tl;dr... Keeping the velocity of whatever round you're using to a minimum will increase the lifespan of your target. Anything about 3,000 fps at impact will drastically reduce the the lifespan of your target.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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