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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,289 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,289 Likes: 10 |
Just a caution: the 788 is NOT a gun for pushing hot loads. You will rapidly set back those tiny locking lugs, resulting in dangerous headspace. The first clue will be cracked or separated cases.
The 788 bolt is rear locking, with three rows of three small lugs each. In normal use, only the first three lugs firmly engage. The middle row will just barely touch, and the last row never engages at all. Look at the wear on them and you'll notice bright metal on the first set, faint wear on the middle, and a pristine rear set.
Unless you've been hot loading. In which case, you'll see heavy wear on the front set, bright metal on the middle, and definite wear marks on the back set. By then, you have grossly excessive headspace. The gun is toast. Shooting beyond that level risks shearing off the front lugs entirely.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,409
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,409 |
"I’m gonna see how fast I can push them..." Buster: Be very careful with that 788 action. It is a rear lug action with a silver soldered on bolt handle that will need brazing if you lock it up and try to open it by heating on the bolt handle.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,836
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,836 |
Ive got an old #1B in .22 250 and a #3 in .219 DW. The load data that came w the DW runs 50gr NBT.
So was thinking just run that bullet in both.
I have a couple lbs of Varget ( also in the DW recipe ).
Last edited by hookeye; 01/22/22.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,385
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,385 |
50 to 52 grain is what I send down range..3900and up is what i run them to.... Savage 12 with heavy barrel with a brake
I work harder than a ugly stripper....
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,898 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,898 Likes: 9 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so.. otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them.. I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity. and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can... you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all... your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode.... slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it.. but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,018 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,018 Likes: 10 |
I used to use a lot of 3031.
My favorite load for the thirty some years I shot the 22-250. Wore out two barrels. 60 gr Hornady spire point over 34.3 gr IMR 3031 with a CCI 200 proper. Accounted for untold whistle pigs, a few fox and coyotes, and one deer. 14 inch twist is fine for the 60 gr Hornady, not so for the 60 gr bllistic tip.
Last edited by Idaho_Shooter; 01/22/22.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,620 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,620 Likes: 20 |
50 grains is a heavy as you need to go with the 250.
40 is fun as hell.
SLOW twists and light bullets are just fine...like old ass Mike said.
You'll be hearing from my attorney mister,,, !!!
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,125
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,125 |
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,125
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 18,125 |
One of my favorites. I always used 50 gr V-max and 4064. Very happy with it.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,705 Likes: 42
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,705 Likes: 42 |
50 grains is a heavy as you need to go with the 250.
40 is fun as hell.
SLOW twists and light bullets are just fine...like old ass Mike said.
You'll be hearing from my attorney mister,,, !!! Do we have the same lawyer?
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,620 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 24,620 Likes: 20 |
Just printed this page as evidence !!!!
PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024/2028 !!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Bristoe The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,920 Likes: 71
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,920 Likes: 71 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so.. otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them.. I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity. and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can... you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all... your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode.... slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it.. but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel.
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,265
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,265 |
My Remington 700 likes 55grain flat base bullets and Big Game 3700 FPS +-
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,265 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,265 Likes: 2 |
Just a caution: the 788 is NOT a gun for pushing hot loads. You will rapidly set back those tiny locking lugs, resulting in dangerous headspace. The first clue will be cracked or separated cases.
The 788 bolt is rear locking, with three rows of three small lugs each. In normal use, only the first three lugs firmly engage. The middle row will just barely touch, and the last row never engages at all. Look at the wear on them and you'll notice bright metal on the first set, faint wear on the middle, and a pristine rear set.
Unless you've been hot loading. In which case, you'll see heavy wear on the front set, bright metal on the middle, and definite wear marks on the back set. By then, you have grossly excessive headspace. The gun is toast. Shooting beyond that level risks shearing off the front lugs entirely. This ... Adding that both the 788 and a 77 Ruger in my arsenal liked IMR 4895 for accuracy with many varied bullets. I will say I never loaded anything smaller than 45 grain projectiles.
"You've been here longer than the State of Alaska is old!" *** my Grandaughters
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,898 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,898 Likes: 9 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so.. otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them.. I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity. and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can... you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all... your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode.... slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it.. but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel. Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected... Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome. try it, you might find the same results
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,341 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 34,341 Likes: 10 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so.. otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them.. I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity. and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can... you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all... your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode.... slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it.. but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel. Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected... Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome. try it, you might find the same results Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
IMR4064 in my slow twist .22-250. 52gr Hornady.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,598 Likes: 8
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,598 Likes: 8 |
if you want penetration for deer?
the construction of most varmint bullets are just fine for deer... except they need to be slowed down to mild 223 levels to be able to do so.. otherwise they will just hit and give a shallow explosive mess on the animal you are trying to take down...
I've posted this before...
several 4 x 6 inch steel plates, 3/8 and inch thick....55 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, penetrated right thru them.. I didn't think I should be seeing this.... so I went home and loaded up 55 gr Soft Points and 55 gr FMJs, at 3100 fps... 223 military load velocity. and then the same thing I had before, 12.5 grain of Blue Dot, with the 55 SPs and 55 FMJs at 2500 fps MV.
at 3100 fps MV, at 100 yards, those bullets just splattered when they hit the steel plate, both the SP and FMJs.
Same bullets leaving the muzzle at 2500 fps, at 100 yds, shot right thru the steel plates...
conclusions... at the faster velocity, the bullets structural integrity, could not overcome the structural integrity of the steel plate...the bullet just splattered...
at the lower MV of 2500, same bullets and their structural integrity was able to overcome the steel plates structural integrity and punched right thru the same steel plates..
Think of it this way and you should see what I am talking about.... standing in water waist deep, ran your fist into the water hitting it as hard as you can... you will feel the resistance of the water, as your fist hits it....
now do the same thing but just put your fist into the water slowly.... you feel no resistance at all... your fist slowly is overcoming the waters structural integrity...
when you hit the water as hard and fast as you can, you can feel the water's structural integrity stand up to your fists structural integrity...
so back to the OP question of what is the fastest can I push a 55 grain bullet? whats the point unless you just want to blow up something, or give a shallow wound to a game animal?
I've also test 55 gr Ballistic Tips out of a 243 into tree trunks of Manzanita Trees ... at varmint bullet speeds, they hit and explode.... slow them down to so 2500 fps or less, they punch right thru a tree with say an 8 inch diameter...
at 55 grain Ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV is a lot more effective deer bullet, than one leaving the muzzle at 4,000 fps...
try it for penetration if you don't believe it... I wouldn't have believed it, until I saw it for myself... when I wasn't looking for it.. but it made me test it out, and that is exactly what I saw... Sorry, but this is absolutely not the case. It’s velocity that punches holes in steel plates. Every rifle match with steel targets have velocity limits to protect the steel. Well I drew my conclusions by what I saw happen... which was exactly the opposite of what I expected... Still didn't change the results....can't tell you any more than that right there.... but I've proven it over and over.... bullet construction also is playing a big part in that outcome. try it, you might find the same results Seafire, you are correct. I have witnessed similar results myself. If you overrun a bullet jacket and lead anatomy in the bullet comes apart and does not penetrate adequately it is not in good on animals. Real fast bullets may put holes in still targets very true. But the hunting situation is why fast twist small caliber rifles are getting popular. I have an eight twist 22-250 shooting 88 grain elds shoots plenty of speed very accurate and is very dear Worthy. But I keep the velocity down in that 3100 range
Last edited by ldholton; 01/23/22.
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 Likes: 1 |
IMR4064 in my slow twist .22-250. 52gr Hornady.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,366 |
This. I have used 4895, 4064. 4320, H414, 4350 with good results. IMR 4064 grains are larger than the other two medium burn rate powders but that never was an issue for me.
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