As if an example of one in hundreds and thousands of shootings has anything to do with anything?
Plus, there are not any girls hiding behind dressers in my home, so what's your point?
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by David_Walter
I’m with John Burns. It’s puzzling why people want rifle ammo that won’t penetrate common barriers in their home.
Caus if you kill the home invaders and mess up momma’s wall she’s gonna be mad?
I want something that’s going to penetrate and neutralize the threat behind any surface in my home.
I can hire repairmen if I live. I’m not at all afraid to get messy when the chips are down.
The difference between cover and concealment is lost on 95% of the people.
I guess you didn't see that video out of California where the cop killed the bad guy, but also shot through the dressing room wall, killing a girl hiding inside.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
As if an example of one in hundreds and thousands of shootings has anything to do with anything?
Plus, there are not any girls hiding behind dressers in my home, so what's your point?
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by David_Walter
I’m with John Burns. It’s puzzling why people want rifle ammo that won’t penetrate common barriers in their home.
Caus if you kill the home invaders and mess up momma’s wall she’s gonna be mad?
I want something that’s going to penetrate and neutralize the threat behind any surface in my home.
I can hire repairmen if I live. I’m not at all afraid to get messy when the chips are down.
The difference between cover and concealment is lost on 95% of the people.
I guess you didn't see that video out of California where the cop killed the bad guy, but also shot through the dressing room wall, killing a girl hiding inside.
Some of us do have wives and kids in the house and neighbors who are close.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Last edited by David_Walter; 01/28/22. Reason: Added commentary on combat
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
WellI found about 200 rounds of Federal .223 fmj in various different boxes in the house. They were bought at a Wal Mart years ago,I suppose they are 55 Grain ?
Found 15 rounds of Corbon .223 53 Grain DPX(Dont appear to be Made anymore)were supposed to chrono at 3,000 fps from a 20 inch barrel according to the factory.
Found 12 rounds of Federal 60 grain Partition
Found 2 boxes of Hornady .223 Superformance 75 grain Not sure if they are safe to fire in the carbine Gas system of a 10.5 inch barrel 5.56 semi Auto Pistol I will have to call Hornady next week
Forgetting the Hornady until I talk with them.
And until I get some better ammo ,which ones from the above would you choose for the 10.5inch Pistol ?
Some of us do have wives and kids in the house and neighbors who are close.
Most interior walls in the USA are 2 sheets of drywall and 3 3/4 inches of air and won't reliably stop any round suitable for defense.
Plan accordingly for home defense.
Being able to engage the home invasion crew trying to breach the front door before they actually breach the door might be handy at times.
You have always been one of the better posters here and this is not a bash or slam.
Just discussing the pros and cons of ammo for home defense.
John, As usual, I'm not thinking in terms of absolutes, just things that may mitigate risks in the scenario's I'm more likely to face. Notice I didn't say my ammo choice would eliminate the risks, just mitigate them. From my bedroom, the kids are typically behind at least 4 sheet of sheet rock, or a sheet rock and a couple of sheets of OSB. Additionally, I don't live in a sterile sheet rock shoot house, I live in a home, with book cases, closets full of cloths, furniture, appliances, electronics, etc. There's a lot more than just sheetrock a bullet may encounter.
Neighbor are typically behind at least two external walls and various numbers of internal walls, and maybe a fence.
Of course there's also a chance any round into an internal wall might hit a stud. Those odds can be better that 1/8 depending on the angle of entry.
There's also multiple fields of fire where I'd have a earth or concrete backstops. On such a bad day they would be idea, but there no guarantee those are the shots that would present themselves.
On thing I didn't mention above was filing cabinets. Once upon a time, many years ago, after showing his 22-250 to the neighbors he pointed it toward the corner and pulled the trigger. Well, he dropped the rounds out of the magazine but failed to run the bolt, and put a 52gr hollow point into the filing cabinet. Good think he didn't get audited after that, bullet was stopped by about 20 years of tax returns. No walls were harmed.
Bottom line is, when facing a home invasion, don't expect the fight you planned for, you'll get the fight ya get, and each of us has to evaluate our own relative risks and do our best to mitigate them. Your situation, and therefore your risks are different than mine, so our solutions might be different.
Hopefully neither of us has the occasion to test our home defense ammo choices, but it's good carefully consider such things, just in case.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Most ammo operates in a velocity window and I’d be shocked if any home defense situation would extend past that window.
I have 77 grain SMK’s loaded up in my 16” carbine. I’ve got another mag full of MK 318 barrier blind ammo laying right there with the gun. The MK 318 shoots 2” left at 200 yards. You need to know things like that, it’ll keep your mind busy so you don’t overthink the simple stuff.
Most ammo operates in a velocity window and I’d be shocked if any home defense situation would extend past that window.
I have 77 grain SMK’s loaded up in my 16” carbine. I’ve got another mag full of MK 318 barrier blind ammo laying right there with the gun. The MK 318 shoots 2” left at 200 yards. You need to know things like that, it’ll keep your mind busy so you don’t overthink the simple stuff.
It's good to have options. You can cover a lot of possibilities with a good varmint bullet like the NBT and a good deer bullet, like the 60gr NPT or the 64gr BSB.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
50 grain v max IF i had to defend the castle with an Ar, out of your list i would say the partitions. as many have said they wont traditionally stop with drywall. I don't have neighbors so no need to worry about them, just the family behind walls in adjacent rooms. i rely on the dogs to let me know when a threat is in the house and hopefully never need to dump someone in the house
WellI found about 200 rounds of Federal .223 fmj in various different boxes in the house. They were bought at a Wal Mart years ago,I suppose they are 55 Grain ?
Found 15 rounds of Corbon .223 53 Grain DPX(Dont appear to be Made anymore)were supposed to chrono at 3,000 fps from a 20 inch barrel according to the factory.
Found 12 rounds of Federal 60 grain Partition
Found 2 boxes of Hornady .223 Superformance 75 grain Not sure if they are safe to fire in the carbine Gas system of a 10.5 inch barrel 5.56 semi Auto Pistol I will have to call Hornady next week
Forgetting the Hornady until I talk with them.
And until I get some better ammo ,which ones from the above would you choose for the 10.5inch Pistol ?
Remember that 5.56 NATO is max 62K psi anyways, and 223 is max 55K psi. I would shoot them in a 5.56 chamber without hesitation.
WellI found about 200 rounds of Federal .223 fmj in various different boxes in the house. They were bought at a Wal Mart years ago,I suppose they are 55 Grain ?
Found 15 rounds of Corbon .223 53 Grain DPX(Dont appear to be Made anymore)were supposed to chrono at 3,000 fps from a 20 inch barrel according to the factory.
Found 12 rounds of Federal 60 grain Partition
Found 2 boxes of Hornady .223 Superformance 75 grain Not sure if they are safe to fire in the carbine Gas system of a 10.5 inch barrel 5.56 semi Auto Pistol I will have to call Hornady next week
Forgetting the Hornady until I talk with them.
And until I get some better ammo ,which ones from the above would you choose for the 10.5inch Pistol ?
Remember that 5.56 NATO is max 62K psi anyways, and 223 is max 55K psi. I would shoot them in a 5.56 chamber without hesitation.
Well I dont think that the Pressure difference is the main difference,But it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon. I will get the skinny on the ammo next week From Hornady and pass along here what they tell me.
Maybe, but if I went that route and until I get more ammo I would Just load the magazine that will be in the pistol with the Federal FMJ first then top it off with the Partitions. Or stagger them But I will for sure have a full magazine.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
Last edited by MOGC; 01/29/22.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
