Most ammo operates in a velocity window and I’d be shocked if any home defense situation would extend past that window.
I have 77 grain SMK’s loaded up in my 16” carbine. I’ve got another mag full of MK 318 barrier blind ammo laying right there with the gun. The MK 318 shoots 2” left at 200 yards. You need to know things like that, it’ll keep your mind busy so you don’t overthink the simple stuff.
It's good to have options. You can cover a lot of possibilities with a good varmint bullet like the NBT and a good deer bullet, like the 60gr NPT or the 64gr BSB.
Sort of where I am @.
Truck/ranch/house AR has 69gr TMKs in the mag because it expands so fast on varmints and shoots really well.
Have a couple of mags in the house filled with Greentip and a couple of mags in the truck with Browntip.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I have already Posted in this thread that my question is about good ammo for the AR-15 Pistol 5.56/.223 with a 10.5" barrel My question was NOT about whether a Shotgun or Rile or Pistol was better for home Defense. I suspect that you have already Read my Post concerning that but in case you haven't I am posting it again.
And I also have shotguns in the house that are Loaded with Buckshot and not birdshot. 12 gauge with 00 Buckshot and 20 Gauge #Buckshot. Numerous amounts of Testing point to a lack of Penetration using birdshot Loads in Ballistic Gelatin.
While Any size shot from a Shotgun MAY or May not work at any given time, evidence shows that a Shotgun with Buckshot has a better chance of stopping the attacker than a shotgun loaded with birdshot does.
But again, my question Concerns Factory loads for a 5.56/.223 with a 10.5" inch barrel.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
That’s what I meant when I said a guy needs more than the 12 rounds of Partitions mentioned. 12 rounds isn’t even enough for proper sighting and testing. By about a factor of 10.
FYI there’s a Hornady 60-grain SP that’s a decent analogue for the 60 NPT.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
That’s what I meant when I said a guy needs more than the 12 rounds of Partitions mentioned. 12 rounds isn’t even enough for proper sighting and testing. By about a factor of 10.
FYI there’s a Hornady 60-grain SP that’s a decent analogue for the 60 NPT.
I figure to break in the upper and sight in using the Federal FMJ which I have the most of and then If I decide to use the Partitions I will shoot a few ,note the difference in POI . I have looked for gel tests using a pistol barrel but so far have not found any.
I am going to call Hornady this upcoming week to see if it is even safe to fire in a carbine Length Gas system before I test it for function.
I also went to the Hornady website and could not find any Loaded ammo with a 60 grain Bullet . I also could not find any 60 grain bullets for reloading (which I don't want to do ).
And nothing that is analogues to the design of the Partition.
What do you base your factor of 10 for PROPOR sighting and testing on ?
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
That’s what I meant when I said a guy needs more than the 12 rounds of Partitions mentioned. 12 rounds isn’t even enough for proper sighting and testing. By about a factor of 10.
FYI there’s a Hornady 60-grain SP that’s a decent analogue for the 60 NPT.
I figure to break in the upper and sight in using the Federal FMJ which I have the most of and then If I decide to use the Partitions I will shoot a few ,note the difference in POI . I have looked for gel tests using a pistol barrel but so far have not found any.
I am going to call Hornady this upcoming week to see if it is even safe to fire in a carbine before I test it for function.
I also went to the Hornady website and could not find any Loaded ammo with a 60 grain Bullet . I also could not find any 60 grain bullets for reloading (which I don't want to do ).
And nothing that is analogues to the design of the Partition.
What do you base your factor of 10 for PROPOR sighting and testing on ?
If you want the modern version of the partion, try these:
Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.514 grain H2O = 1.657 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 10.5 inch = 266.7 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
59 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 106.8 24.3 1.57 2631 99.4 61500 18606 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 108.3 24.9 1.62 2600 97.0 61500 19358 0.639 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 102.6 26.0 1.68 2600 91.7 61500 18982 0.607 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 97.3 23.6 1.53 2585 95.4 61500 18225 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 103.5 23.6 1.53 2585 95.4 61500 18225 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 105.1 27.0 1.75 2584 90.1 61500 18981 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 105.7 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 108.2 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 108.2 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 110.0 25.9 1.68 2578 88.2 60793 19068 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 110.0 28.2 1.83 2575 85.2 61397 18883 0.605 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 97.5 25.0 1.62 2574 94.1 61500 18305 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 107.1 25.2 1.63 2573 89.5 61500 18695 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 108.2 25.0 1.62 2573 94.1 61500 18361 0.616 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 110.0 24.2 1.57 2572 95.3 57458 18961 0.629 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 110.0 27.6 1.79 2571 87.1 60857 18751 0.609 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 101.0 22.4 1.45 2571 98.4 61500 17812 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 105.0 26.4 1.71 2564 88.3 61500 18429 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 107.3 25.2 1.63 2564 88.6 61500 18527 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 103.0 24.3 1.58 2561 90.8 61500 18153 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 97.0 22.3 1.45 2557 98.9 61500 17602 0.633 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 100.1 21.1 1.37 2556 99.2 61500 16720 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 110.0 26.2 1.69 2556 93.7 60967 18195 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 103.7 23.3 1.51 2555 97.7 61500 17587 0.625 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 95.4 21.0 1.36 2554 100.0 61500 16638 0.618 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 105.2 24.8 1.60 2553 90.8 61500 17977 0.612 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 102.8 24.7 1.60 2553 95.5 61500 17594 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 100.9 25.5 1.65 2547 92.0 61500 18071 0.627 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 100.6 25.5 1.65 2547 92.0 61500 18071 0.627 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 108.4 25.0 1.62 2547 90.8 61500 18151 0.624 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 110.0 25.9 1.68 2544 86.8 59456 18562 0.624 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 83.4 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 85.3 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle 85.3 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 99.0 25.0 1.62 2540 91.9 61500 17750 0.622 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 99.0 25.0 1.62 2540 91.9 61500 17750 0.622 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 109.7 23.6 1.53 2535 97.4 61500 16816 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 94.5 21.5 1.39 2534 98.9 61500 16746 0.620 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 97.6 23.7 1.54 2534 92.2 61500 17416 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 87.1 21.4 1.38 2532 96.8 61500 16809 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 99.8 25.4 1.65 2532 89.7 61500 17607 0.619 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 103.4 22.7 1.47 2530 98.3 61500 16705 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 110.0 25.9 1.68 2529 87.3 58236 18484 0.631 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 95.4 23.9 1.55 2526 92.2 61500 17256 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 103.7 24.0 1.56 2525 92.0 61500 17240 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 90.7 19.5 1.26 2524 100.0 61500 15671 0.606 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 *C 97.9 21.0 1.36 2524 100.0 61500 15597 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 101.6 25.5 1.65 2523 88.5 61500 17482 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Blackout 80.1 19.7 1.27 2522 99.2 61500 15988 0.602 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D063 80.1 19.7 1.27 2522 99.2 61500 15988 0.602 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 *C 92.5 20.2 1.31 2522 100.0 61500 15578 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 103.9 24.8 1.61 2521 86.1 61500 17361 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 96.2 21.3 1.38 2521 95.6 61500 16491 0.605 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 98.0 24.5 1.59 2520 90.2 61500 17144 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 103.9 26.4 1.71 2518 84.4 61500 17538 0.614 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 82.2 19.3 1.25 2514 100.0 61500 15558 0.616 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 90.0 19.4 1.26 2513 99.8 61500 15547 0.604 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 106.5 24.4 1.58 2513 89.1 61500 17061 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 105.6 24.6 1.59 2507 89.8 61500 16893 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Heck get yourself a mag coupler and have both available when you grab your rifle.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 01/30/22.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
That’s what I meant when I said a guy needs more than the 12 rounds of Partitions mentioned. 12 rounds isn’t even enough for proper sighting and testing. By about a factor of 10.
FYI there’s a Hornady 60-grain SP that’s a decent analogue for the 60 NPT.
I figure to break in the upper and sight in using the Federal FMJ which I have the most of and then If I decide to use the Partitions I will shoot a few ,note the difference in POI . I have looked for gel tests using a pistol barrel but so far have not found any.
I am going to call Hornady this upcoming week to see if it is even safe to fire in a carbine before I test it for function.
I also went to the Hornady website and could not find any Loaded ammo with a 60 grain Bullet . I also could not find any 60 grain bullets for reloading (which I don't want to do ).
And nothing that is analogues to the design of the Partition.
What do you base your factor of 10 for PROPOR sighting and testing on ?
If you want the modern version of the partion, try these:
Cartridge : 5.56 mm NATO - 5.56 x 45 mm
Bullet : .224, 64, Nosler Bond SB 38135
Useable Case Capaci: 25.514 grain H2O = 1.657 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 10.5 inch = 266.7 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
59 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 106.8 24.3 1.57 2631 99.4 61500 18606 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 108.3 24.9 1.62 2600 97.0 61500 19358 0.639 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 102.6 26.0 1.68 2600 91.7 61500 18982 0.607 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 97.3 23.6 1.53 2585 95.4 61500 18225 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 103.5 23.6 1.53 2585 95.4 61500 18225 0.608 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 105.1 27.0 1.75 2584 90.1 61500 18981 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 105.7 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 108.2 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 108.2 26.2 1.70 2584 92.8 61500 18849 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 110.0 25.9 1.68 2578 88.2 60793 19068 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 110.0 28.2 1.83 2575 85.2 61397 18883 0.605 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 97.5 25.0 1.62 2574 94.1 61500 18305 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 107.1 25.2 1.63 2573 89.5 61500 18695 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 108.2 25.0 1.62 2573 94.1 61500 18361 0.616 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 110.0 24.2 1.57 2572 95.3 57458 18961 0.629 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 110.0 27.6 1.79 2571 87.1 60857 18751 0.609 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 101.0 22.4 1.45 2571 98.4 61500 17812 0.621 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 105.0 26.4 1.71 2564 88.3 61500 18429 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 107.3 25.2 1.63 2564 88.6 61500 18527 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 103.0 24.3 1.58 2561 90.8 61500 18153 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 97.0 22.3 1.45 2557 98.9 61500 17602 0.633 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 100.1 21.1 1.37 2556 99.2 61500 16720 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 110.0 26.2 1.69 2556 93.7 60967 18195 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 103.7 23.3 1.51 2555 97.7 61500 17587 0.625 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 95.4 21.0 1.36 2554 100.0 61500 16638 0.618 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 105.2 24.8 1.60 2553 90.8 61500 17977 0.612 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 102.8 24.7 1.60 2553 95.5 61500 17594 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 100.9 25.5 1.65 2547 92.0 61500 18071 0.627 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 100.6 25.5 1.65 2547 92.0 61500 18071 0.627 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 108.4 25.0 1.62 2547 90.8 61500 18151 0.624 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 110.0 25.9 1.68 2544 86.8 59456 18562 0.624 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 83.4 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 85.3 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle 85.3 18.8 1.22 2541 99.2 61500 16561 0.603 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 99.0 25.0 1.62 2540 91.9 61500 17750 0.622 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 99.0 25.0 1.62 2540 91.9 61500 17750 0.622 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 109.7 23.6 1.53 2535 97.4 61500 16816 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 94.5 21.5 1.39 2534 98.9 61500 16746 0.620 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 97.6 23.7 1.54 2534 92.2 61500 17416 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 87.1 21.4 1.38 2532 96.8 61500 16809 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 99.8 25.4 1.65 2532 89.7 61500 17607 0.619 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 103.4 22.7 1.47 2530 98.3 61500 16705 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 110.0 25.9 1.68 2529 87.3 58236 18484 0.631 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 95.4 23.9 1.55 2526 92.2 61500 17256 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 103.7 24.0 1.56 2525 92.0 61500 17240 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 90.7 19.5 1.26 2524 100.0 61500 15671 0.606 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 *C 97.9 21.0 1.36 2524 100.0 61500 15597 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 101.6 25.5 1.65 2523 88.5 61500 17482 0.615 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Blackout 80.1 19.7 1.27 2522 99.2 61500 15988 0.602 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D063 80.1 19.7 1.27 2522 99.2 61500 15988 0.602 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 *C 92.5 20.2 1.31 2522 100.0 61500 15578 0.617 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 103.9 24.8 1.61 2521 86.1 61500 17361 0.610 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 96.2 21.3 1.38 2521 95.6 61500 16491 0.605 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 98.0 24.5 1.59 2520 90.2 61500 17144 0.613 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 103.9 26.4 1.71 2518 84.4 61500 17538 0.614 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 82.2 19.3 1.25 2514 100.0 61500 15558 0.616 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 90.0 19.4 1.26 2513 99.8 61500 15547 0.604 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 106.5 24.4 1.58 2513 89.1 61500 17061 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 105.6 24.6 1.59 2507 89.8 61500 16893 0.611 ! Near Maximum !
Heck get yourself a mag coupler and have both available when you grab your rifle.
That ought to be enough firepower !!
Thanks for the information but I am just looking for Factory ammo for the 10.5" Pistol upper.
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Its been very eye opening running these 40 vmax against hogs at home this winter. I'd have expected them to splash on the sides of the bigger hogs for sure. And definitely not be enough to go through heads and spines. Its been doing well enough that I'd not hesitate to keep them in the house gun. Hopefully never will have to find out.
If they made it through a wall, and I suspect they will, there won't be much left to them after that. I doubt enough to kill someone or something else.
But like most of the folks, we don't limit mags to a single bullet. If I was out in the middle of nowhere I think we could be happy with 75/77 bthps for the most part, certainly with TTSX of some weight.
Keep a mag of TTSX handy. You simply never know.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Its been very eye opening running these 40 vmax against hogs at home this winter. I'd have expected them to splash on the sides of the bigger hogs for sure. And definitely not be enough to go through heads and spines. Its been doing well enough that I'd not hesitate to keep them in the house gun. Hopefully never will have to find out.
If they made it through a wall, and I suspect they will, there won't be much left to them after that. I doubt enough to kill someone or something else.
But like most of the folks, we don't limit mags to a single bullet. If I was out in the middle of nowhere I think we could be happy with 75/77 bthps for the most part, certainly with TTSX of some weight.
Keep a mag of TTSX handy. You simply never know.
So they Penetrate enough to go completely through a hogs head? Bout how far do they penetrate in a big hogs body?
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Its been very eye opening running these 40 vmax against hogs at home this winter. I'd have expected them to splash on the sides of the bigger hogs for sure. And definitely not be enough to go through heads and spines. Its been doing well enough that I'd not hesitate to keep them in the house gun. Hopefully never will have to find out.
If they made it through a wall, and I suspect they will, there won't be much left to them after that. I doubt enough to kill someone or something else.
But like most of the folks, we don't limit mags to a single bullet. If I was out in the middle of nowhere I think we could be happy with 75/77 bthps for the most part, certainly with TTSX of some weight.
Keep a mag of TTSX handy. You simply never know.
So they Penetrate enough to go completely through a hogs head? Bout how far do they penetrate in a big hogs body?
What Brand is the ammo ?
Craig,
Everyone in this subforum reloads. I suspect it's been a long time since Rost's bought much, if any, factory ammo.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Its been very eye opening running these 40 vmax against hogs at home this winter. I'd have expected them to splash on the sides of the bigger hogs for sure. And definitely not be enough to go through heads and spines. Its been doing well enough that I'd not hesitate to keep them in the house gun. Hopefully never will have to find out.
If they made it through a wall, and I suspect they will, there won't be much left to them after that. I doubt enough to kill someone or something else.
But like most of the folks, we don't limit mags to a single bullet. If I was out in the middle of nowhere I think we could be happy with 75/77 bthps for the most part, certainly with TTSX of some weight.
Keep a mag of TTSX handy. You simply never know.
So they Penetrate enough to go completely through a hogs head? Bout how far do they penetrate in a big hogs body?
What Brand is the ammo ?
Reloads yes. I can't recall buying factory ammo in quite some time. We have some of that in AK but not in TX mostly. Other than cheap dove loads, steel shot and rimfire. Grins.
I"ve had em go through hog heads of smaller ones up close. They have yet to not at least enter and destroy whatever inside to kill on broadsides. If they have gotten far enough in to break the spine and neck a few times thats the best answer I can give you.
I have not found an exit yet. Pigs that get body shot and run are usually found in less than 75 yards or so. Some much less.
I understand what others are saying about defense premises. I"ve also shot enough tracers at night through stuff to know that once a bullet hits there is NO telling which way its going to go. almost back towards you is possible. 90 degrees is easy. So we do care about other critters like the cattle, horses etc..even human neighbors. LOL.
If I was going this route and was really worried about not surving then load a few at the top and keep deeper ones under in the mag. If they first few hits dont' work...
The bullet has worked much better than I expected on pigs.. They aren't what I'd call soft. I have not run into one that would hit 200 or even close lately though FWIW. Mostly then are 50 to about 125 pounds.
If I was in an area I didn't care about what the bullet did after it exited these would be the last bullet I'd even think about.
FWIW 50 TTSX we had an issue we thought early on this year. But found out it was shot placement not the bullet. That 50 ttsx will run right on through deer and pigs. Still have to hit the head correctly as my buddy found out. Though I much prefer the 62 ttsx but I digress
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Any ammo that will stop a person won’t stop in a wall. Period.
Plan accordingly.
There’s not any ammo that's combat effective and “house safe.”
And before some chucklehead says “I’m talking about home defense, not combat,” home defense is combat.
Per Webster, anyways:
combat kəm-băt′, kŏm′băt″ intransitive verb To oppose in battle; fight against. To act or work in order to eliminate, curtail, or stop: synonym: oppose. To engage in fighting; contend or struggle.
Its been very eye opening running these 40 vmax against hogs at home this winter. I'd have expected them to splash on the sides of the bigger hogs for sure. And definitely not be enough to go through heads and spines. Its been doing well enough that I'd not hesitate to keep them in the house gun. Hopefully never will have to find out.
If they made it through a wall, and I suspect they will, there won't be much left to them after that. I doubt enough to kill someone or something else.
But like most of the folks, we don't limit mags to a single bullet. If I was out in the middle of nowhere I think we could be happy with 75/77 bthps for the most part, certainly with TTSX of some weight.
Keep a mag of TTSX handy. You simply never know.
So they Penetrate enough to go completely through a hogs head? Bout how far do they penetrate in a big hogs body?
What Brand is the ammo ?
Reloads yes. I can't recall buying factory ammo in quite some time. We have some of that in AK but not in TX mostly. Other than cheap dove loads, steel shot and rimfire. Grins.
I"ve had em go through hog heads of smaller ones up close. They have yet to not at least enter and destroy whatever inside to kill on broadsides. If they have gotten far enough in to break the spine and neck a few times thats the best answer I can give you.
I have not found an exit yet. Pigs that get body shot and run are usually found in less than 75 yards or so. Some much less.
I understand what others are saying about defense premises. I"ve also shot enough tracers at night through stuff to know that once a bullet hits there is NO telling which way its going to go. almost back towards you is possible. 90 degrees is easy. So we do care about other critters like the cattle, horses etc..even human neighbors. LOL.
If I was going this route and was really worried about not surving then load a few at the top and keep deeper ones under in the mag. If they first few hits dont' work...
The bullet has worked much better than I expected on pigs.. They aren't what I'd call soft. I have not run into one that would hit 200 or even close lately though FWIW. Mostly then are 50 to about 125 pounds.
If I was in an area I didn't care about what the bullet did after it exited these would be the last bullet I'd even think about.
FWIW 50 TTSX we had an issue we thought early on this year. But found out it was shot placement not the bullet. That 50 ttsx will run right on through deer and pigs. Still have to hit the head correctly as my buddy found out. Though I much prefer the 62 ttsx but I digress
Interesting on the 40 gr vmax.
I’ve watched coyotes soak up multiple without going down. Seemed awful soft.
it seems like I remember reading somewhere that the difference was the pressure curve is the issue because to get the Superformance high velocity that Hornady had to change the pressure curve so that in essence there was more pressure sooner than Non Superformance ammo. seems like I remember them recommending to use a rifle gas system from a 20 inch barrel to keep the action from opening too soon.
Shoot it anyway. The worst thing that can happen is a rim will get ripped off.
You have a cleaning rod to punch the case out.
Any of that ammo you have is fine and dandy.
A rim getting ripped off and the need to clear it with a cleaning rod during a gunfight in your home does sorta seem like one of those "worst things that can happen" situations. I think he wants to make sure that isn't likely to happen before he loads the ammo for self defense. Personally I think it will be good to go in his weapon, but it is his salvation to work out and he needs to do what gives him confidence.
If you haven't tested it in your weapon, you shouldn't be using it for self defense regardless of what the manufacturer says about it.
That’s what I meant when I said a guy needs more than the 12 rounds of Partitions mentioned. 12 rounds isn’t even enough for proper sighting and testing. By about a factor of 10.
FYI there’s a Hornady 60-grain SP that’s a decent analogue for the 60 NPT.
I figure to break in the upper and sight in using the Federal FMJ which I have the most of and then If I decide to use the Partitions I will shoot a few ,note the difference in POI . I have looked for gel tests using a pistol barrel but so far have not found any.
I am going to call Hornady this upcoming week to see if it is even safe to fire in a carbine Length Gas system before I test it for function.
I also went to the Hornady website and could not find any Loaded ammo with a 60 grain Bullet . I also could not find any 60 grain bullets for reloading (which I don't want to do ).
And nothing that is analogues to the design of the Partition.
What do you base your factor of 10 for PROPOR sighting and testing on ?
Hmm, I wonder if they stopped making it. It was just a 60-grn SP. In my rifle it behaved very similarly to the Partition in terms of POI and flight ballistics. I don’t know anything about it’s terminal performance; obviously (probably) a whole other beast than a NPT in that regard.
As far as only having 12 of them, I just feel I need to run some significant quantity of whatever I’m going to use for defense through my guns before I feel warm and fuzzy about it working reliably. I certainly ran a couple boxes of (100) Partitions through my gun back when I loaded these. They were easy to buy then... Wish I had more on hand.
Rost... any trouble with tips coming off the Vmax’s? AR’s aren’t gentle... Tipped bullets for defense seem to violate the KISS principle.
Way over thinking. The Blue Collar link has over 3 pages of .223 ammo in stock. Standouts include 40 rounds of Winchester 45 grain sp for $38ish. Fiochi 50 round boxes of Vmax in different weights for about the same. A bunch of other brands to fit any taste. In a house or basic yard I’m reasonably sure any designed to expand will expand and do extensive damage whether fired from a 10” or 16” barrel. Buy & blast for function. Maybe get a linear muzzle device on the chance some of the concussion might actually be diverted forward. It ain’t this hard.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
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