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Absolutely agree. It for sure will have Zero effect on my intended “long range” of 250 yards.
I have not been curious enough to weigh my 350 grain TSX 416’s. I would think there would be more variations than the Hammers. But, they group impressively at 100 meters out of 3 different rifles and several various boxes and lot numbers.
Lol, I almost weighed some 458, 450 TSX. Because I had an open box of them by the scales. But, was not that curious.
You bet ldmay375. Sir Ron, many thanks for the Metford lesson, good stuff Sir, and yessir, i do weigh my Sharps rifle black powder charges, as in weighing big bore smokeless rifle bullets for 250-300 yard max hunting ranges, i do not weigh black powder charges for my original '86's in 40-65 or 45-70, they're max 125 yard hunting rifles.
Trump Won!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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As I discovered at the B&M Forum, Sir Larry and Sir John are working on getting Michael McCourry at the McCourry Institute of Ballistics in South Carolina to test the 400-g/.458-cal/3mm-HP Shock Hammer for penetration in artificial media. With the vast amount of testing previously done by Doc M at MIB for comparison, that will be useful information.
Buy a donkey to those MEN OF THE SQUARE TABLE. That was mighty Knight of them.
Sir Charles,
The MIB test media of the past has been a form of wetpack, news print and magazines and such, sometimes with concrete blocks or bones and whatever thrown in, 50-yard indoor laboratory with instruments capable of pressure testing, etc. Will get updated. Going by the results that I got with the 220 grain Power Hammer Hunter (PHH) on 3 deer and 1 hog out of my 35 Whelen I'd wager that Sir Ron's creation (400 grain Hammer) will prove to be the best all around 458 bullet in existence
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Sir John, The new Shock Hammer: BEST ALL AROUND Yes. May not be the best for a specific ballistic performance item like deepest penetration on blue whales but it will come closest to being best "all around."
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Sir John, The new Shock Hammer: BEST ALL AROUND Yes. May not be the best for a specific ballistic performance item like deepest penetration on blue whales but it will come closest to being best "all around." If it works like other Hammer bullet it will be fantastic. I noticed in ballistics gel the petals penetrates as deep as the shank. Deeper than most bullets with larger wound channels
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Sir Ron, Best guess on powder for the Hammer 400 ?
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If anyone wants to see it the 400 grain Hammer 400 will pass our ele brain shot test. send me a couple of spare bullets and I will test them when the sleet and snow ceases. I will report confidentially if they splatter on the steel plate. Some copper bullets from my .405 WCF have done just that, making little flat pieces suitable for hand made bracelets.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
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If anyone wants to see it the 400 grain Hammer 400 will pass our ele brain shot test. send me a couple of spare bullets and I will test them when the sleet and snow ceases. I will report confidentially if they splatter on the steel plate. Some copper bullets from my .405 WCF have done just that, making little flat pieces suitable for hand made bracelets. They are all copper it can't all splatter
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Sir John, The new Shock Hammer: BEST ALL AROUND Yes. May not be the best for a specific ballistic performance item like deepest penetration on blue whales but it will come closest to being best "all around." I am most anxious to see how they do on the penetration aspect. On the low end, if they penetrate as well as conventional premium 400 grainers, I can live with that. Of course, More is certainly welcome. The BC of these is what really caught my eye and interest. If the penetration is similar to a Barnes .416, 350 grain TSX, I will be Very happy.
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Sir Larry,
80 grains of AA-2230 is my favorite for a COL around 3.4" with 400-gr bullets, whether GSC HV or Woodleigh PPSN. Normal practices: Start at 72.0 gr, work up to 80.0 grains for SAAMI standard loads with 400-grainer. AA-2460 will also do about same at same charges. H322 at slightly lower charges. H4895 at higher charge weights with compression.
All those powders are temperature insensitive and good choices for 400-grainers, AA-2230 is top pick for me.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Sir Larry,
80 grains of AA-2230 is my favorite for a COL around 3.4" with 400-gr bullets, whether GSC HV or Woodleigh PPSN. Normal practices: Start at 72.0 gr, work up to 80.0 grains for SAAMI standard loads with 400-grainer. AA-2460 will also do about same at same charges. H322 at slightly lower charges. H4895 at higher charge weights with compression.
All those powders are temperature insensitive and good choices for 400-grainers, AA-2230 is top pick for me.
Thank you ! I had just picked up 8lbs of the 2230. I was hoping that it would be suitable. Edit: Should be no problem with that COAL in my 458 Winchester. Guessing the 2230 will work on the 458 Lott also. I have to show it some compassion also.
Last edited by ldmay375; 02/02/22.
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Hammer Bullets has agreed with my finding of a bi-modal bullet weight. They have agreed there is a 400-gr mode and a 403-gr mode. The mystery has not been solved. https://hammerbullets.boards.net/thread/2117/400g-shock-hammer-coming-soon?page=6&scrollTo=27440Gotta be in the raw material. 9 to 1 ratio of 2 different alloys in the rods. QA would mean detecting a 0.75% difference in rod weights, assuming no mixing of the alloys within the same rod.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Hmm, yep my wild-arse uneducated guess, raw material issue. I am betting they keep a close eye on their machining dimensions.
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Yup, bullets are identical within 0.00005" of linear dimensions on checking by Hammer Bullets. Has to be some weight variation within the density/sp.gr. of the alloy.
It has to be some fixed discontinuity like between two different rods made of two different alloys. It is that clear. 400-grainer versus 403-grainer. Bi-modal, not a normal bell-shaped curve.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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I am assuming the 2230 will also work well with the 458 Lott and 400’s. I had added to my post prior regarding the 2230.
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Sir Larry, you are on your own for .458 Lott load data. My .458 WM+ data is dangerous in the weak sister SAAMI .458 Lott.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Lol, I will review the Professor’s data.
Last edited by ldmay375; 02/02/22.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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80.0 Vel. (ft/s) 2,457 Pressure 53,700 PSI
458 win
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Great work as always Sir Ron of Ol Kentucky. I won't be much help to the 400 Hammer cause other than to say I do believe you are on the right track to get to where you designed you wanted to to. That will be as close to "One bullet for all" as one bullet can be. Of course this "One bullet" is being launched by the One True 458 WM the Magnificent which makes any bullet just a little bit better. Side thought as a question; How does bullet against Steel tests show us how bullet on Elephant heads work? I have never thought steel showed us much about bullets except how that bullet works on that steel so eager to learn.
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Great work as always Sir Ron of Ol Kentucky. I won't be much help to the 400 Hammer cause other than to say I do believe you are on the right track to get to where you designed you wanted to to. That will be as close to "One bullet for all" as one bullet can be. Of course this "One bullet" is being launched by the One True 458 WM the Magnificent which makes any bullet just a little bit better. Side thought as a question; How does bullet against Steel tests show us how bullet on Elephant heads work? I have never thought steel showed us much about bullets except how that bullet works on that steel so eager to learn. To penetrate steel speed is the most important aspect. Not bullet construction but speed. Yes bullet construction matters but with enough speed Varmint bullets will penetrate 1/2" A-36 steel plate
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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JWP475, That has been my experience as well, thus the question. Steel doesn't seem to give us much information about the matter at hand but always willing to listen and learn.
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