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So, you take a box to a counter, or hand it to a driver, with the assumption he is going to do a complete check to see if you screwed up. Then he's going to rewrap it himself? IF, they do catch it, they take it to a clerk that is getting paid 20 bucks an hour to rewrap something that some one else knows doesn't make the grade, from past experience, and this repeated discussion, and is just too lazy to do it right. I repeated it does not have to be in a steel box, it does not have to be heavy, it just has to be stiff. The weak point is the wrist. If you just got a couple pieces of Styrofoam and some shrink wrap and fortified the wrist that would probably save the majority of snapped wrists. If a person was really concerned they would go to their local gun shop and ask if they had a used gun box with the Styrofoam in it. I got a box from a member here that didn't even have a piece of Sheit paper around it. Nothing. But, it made it fine. Does that mean it's the right way. Gary knows Steve at the gun shack. He's the one that said he has NEVER had a damaged gun from the manufacturer. Why can a manufacturer ship guns and not get broken but a civilian can't. If you can wrap a piece of bubble wrap around a fly rod and bend it, why on earth do you think it would hold a gun rigid. I had a lady ask me if her box was sturdy enough. I held it, squeezed it and it looked just fine to ship anything. The one cute, funny thing is she put a shipping address on all 6 sides in the most beautiful calligraphy. A few days later I got a follow up on a damaged package. Turned out what was in the box was a Pineapple Upside Down cake she sent to her brother for his birthday. Guess what, it got turned up side down and slid all over. I guarnen-F'n_tee you the first person here that had a driver refuse to take their package because he didn't think it was packed well, would be Screaming bloody murder how his package was going to be late and it was all the drivers fault because he wouldn't take it. Trailers are ten feet high, packages weigh up to 70 pounds, you always assume yours is going to be on the bottom. The thing I really don't get is why people put their guns in a hard case, in their own back seat, to take them to Noxen for the week end, and then stick it in a three times used card board box to ship it across country. And, to say it's wrong for them to take the box and your money, did you ever say, "By the way, this is a very expensive rifle", and see their eyes bug out. If you took 2 seconds to tell the clerk what you were shipping they might say, "it's not good enough". But, if they did that and it added 2 pounds to the parcel, holy cow, more money to ship it!

Never sent a gun anything other than USPS Priority. I have never sent a single gun UPS or Fed Ex.

When I say to go to Noxen, that's just an example. I put mine in hard cases to go to Noxen. But, then I put them in hard cases to ship also.

See, that's life. Some people will spend $18 to see that something makes it, and others won't spend $2 on proper packing material, and blame the guy that took it from them.

It's this simple to me. Blaming the people that broke my poorly packaged gun, don't unbreak it.

good luck and it may work, then again it may not.
I bought a 1500.00 flintlock. when i got it there were tire tracks on the outside of the wood crate it was shipped in. the barrel and stock were separated and both suspended in a framework with padding/bubble wrap surrounding them. the stock was broken through the wrist. USPS response? tough [bleep]!

Was it insured for $1500?

unfortunately no. but insurance wouldn't have kept it from being broken.

No, I'm not saying anything about packaging. I'm saying there's a don't give a sh*t attitude with employees of common carriers from the top down, no matter how well it is or isn't packaged. One cannot expect decent handling anymore, even though they take in about a $billion a week. For the money they charge you should rightfully expect fair treatment of your goods, no matter if it's in a two inch thick wooden box or in a shoebox. If the carrier can't treat a customer's property with respect and care they don't deserve any business. Why should I have to spend (or demand) an extra $30 for a hard case or build a special box just to compensate for the lackadaisical approach to loading a truck? It ain't right. And don't say they're overwhelmed and gotta sling a thousand packages an hour- it's their problem not mine and they need to fix it.

I'll defend the Shipping Gorilla's, until they are extinct. Total automated handling is on it's way.

BUT, I won't defend A-Holes, and we had our share. Most would do stupid stuff to disrupt an operation. I only ever saw one feeder driver that did something that would damage a package. When a trailer is finished being loaded they are supposed to have a load retainer put on them. That's specifically to protect the drivers when they get to their destination. If the trailer has swing doors on it, the driver has to open them before he puts the trailer on the door. The front of a trailer is higher than the back. Just driving down the road the loads tend to shift a little toward the rear. If there is no load retainer on the packages, they can rest on the swing doors. As soon as the first latch releases hundreds of pounds of packages can shift and fall out on the driver, Drivers have been killed. So, this one driver when he was pulling a full load would go inside the building and inspect the load as he should, check 3 boxes for the zip code to make sure he's on the right door, then proceed to pull. This one guy, if when he inspected the load, it didn't have a retainer, instead of calling a part time supervisor and having one put on, he would proceed to pull and pop the clutch, dumping packages on the ground, then call up to yard control and make a bunch of supervisors come clean up the mess. He thought he was protecting drivers. He did it 2 days in a row. The third day they put a camera on his bay door, and fired him on the spot. He had a 30 year spotless record so he did get his job back. But, they revoked his DOT card and put him to work loading trailers.

One way a package can get run over is if the driver opens the swing doors and as he's backing up, a package from the middle of the load falls out. You can't see the center of the bay backing up. Tire tracks on the box. Usually it's the driver coming to get the empty trailer that funds it. When pulling an empty trailer, before making contact with it, the driver has to get out, walk to the back of the trailer and beat on it and yell ,"Pulling" the bay number to make sure there are no people in it.

Absolutely right.

If I damage a clients property in the execution of my job, guess who gets to buy it? And no, I don't make them buy insurance to protect themselves from me! And if I did make them buy insurance to protect themselves from me, on what grounds could I possibly justify blaming them when I damaged their property?

The entire shipping industry with it's damage claim record s a total scam.

For the people that defend shippers, imagine you order new windows for your house and half of them arrive broken. You pissed when you don't get your money back? Welcome to shipping claims.

I hope I can beat the odds but I can tell you already the process is circular and frustrating. Think that might be on purpose?

There's a 100% expectation that windows arrive unbroken, and no one would argue that is the case, why is there any other standard for guns? ESPECIALLY when the shipper themselves charge even more to insure it against their own negligence. You not only paid them to do their job, but you insured the product against damage at your expense, above and beyond paying them their asking price to perform their job.

It doesn't matter what it is, if it's my job to deliver something and I break it, I own it.

Let me know if the insurance won’t pay, we’ll figure something out. I feel extremely bad about this. I have a cheap case and cardboard box it came in. I should have sent that to you.

I just told Roy this in a PM, but every one should know and consider it. So, lets say you think your package is pretty stout, and should take any reasonable handling. OK, I agree. So, would you fudge on the weight of a package to save a few bucks, no harm no foul? We had a cast iron pipe factory that shipped through our building. Any thing that weighs over 70 pounds, gets an over weight surcharge. They made cast iron elbows that hooked fire hydrants up to the main feed lines. They started putting them in cardboard boxes and hand writing 69 pounds on the box so as not to get the surcharge. If one of those got in the load, trailer hits a bump, every thing under it gets crushed. Does that mean all of those packages were ill packed or mishandled, of course not. So, it doesn't have to be your package that was not up to snuff. There are too many people that will do anything to save a buck. And to say they are given carte blanche to throw and miss handle packages in the very next post after I said it is a Cardinal Offense to do so, with instant termination, is irresponsible. They do take it serious and handle it swiftly. All you have to do is go on youtube and watch the videos of drivers throwing packages to know it happens. But, I can guarantee they no longer work at UPS. The grounds UPS uses to fire some one for mishandling a package is "Destruction of Company Property". The second they take possession of your package they consider it their property. My wife sent a box to her niece after she lost a baby. The box had some stuffed animals that her niece had when she lived with us 30 years ago, a family Bible with hand written notes in the margins. The mail man put one flap of card board in the mail box. No box, just the flap. She hasn't used USPS since. I'm not condoning it, I understand every ones frustration, don't think damages are taken lightly, they are not. Can people be trained better sure. But we can be trained better too. I just can't understand people that are told there is a failure in training people in a position with a 90% turn over rate, and they can mitigate a lot of it by just making the box a little stiffer, and they say NO, I'm not going to do it, it's their fault.

I have had a few packages that looked like they were used for wheel chocks.

Flat crushed boxes just don't get that way by themself.

But i know that not all the folks who handle packages are chunkers.

What? Heck no David, this is all just fun and games. It was my idea and it's no great loss. We're all good! Of course the cards that broke that sucker are gunna get my full attention but come hell or high water it doesn't matter one wit between us old friend! Don't lose one second sleep over this, it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

If UPS accepted a package for shipping, it's on them.

If they want to ship nuclear warheads and they drop one, that's on them.

Some members here may remember this...

I bought a gun once. Spent an awful lot of money that I didn't have. I sold seven other nice guns to cover the cost. For anyone interested in the fiasco surrounding this event, the thread starts 01/30/06.

When it arrived, the butt plate was peeking out of the hard case and the box it was in. Thankfully, there was no damage to the gun.

Since then, my standard shipping container for long guns has been a piece of ABS pipe closed with two test plugs. Never had a problem.

Doug

Doug,
What diameter ABS do you use and where do you buy it?
TY